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Once more, this specific case (people smoking in the car with children) IS my business as the children cannot defend themselves in any way. How they parent is my business as well, because the consequences of how they raise their kids sifts into society. Unless you live on an island cut off from the rest of the world, what you do DOES impact others. Denying it doesn't make it any less true.
I smoked in the car with my kids. In the house too. So did my wife. When the kids rode with me in the big truck, I smoked all the way to California or New York and back with them sitting right there in a much more confined space than your average car.
Today, they're all in their 30's or 40's, perfectly healthy (except one with a degenerative nerve condition unrelated to smoking), gainfully employed and pretty darn good parents to boot. Their kids are healthy and normal too.
What consequences did my smoking around them have on society? Hmmmm?
No, it is not any of your business, it has nothing to do with you....Period.
You are trying to compare apples and oranges to validate what you think is a point and it will not work. You are trying to impose your opinions and choices on others and it simply is not your place, no matter who much you think it may be.
Come to grips that not everyone is on the same page as you and does not agree, this is nothing more than your opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0
Young kids generally have no option when the family decides to go someplace. They have to ride in the car with all the smoke. Thus, they are trapped. And are you actually going to argue this? G'head, what does the defense say?
What I meant in my reference to "We're not gonna take it" is that a non-smoker shouldn't have to take in cigarette smoke in a public place. I don't tend to agree with "Whatever I do in the privacy of my own home has no effect on you" either, but it's at least better than people wanting to smoke in public. The debate over secondhand smoke's harmful effects aside, everyone has the right to choose what goes into their body.
Once more, this specific case (people smoking in the car with children) IS my business as the children cannot defend themselves in any way. How they parent is my business as well, because the consequences of how they raise
their kids sifts into society. Unless you live on an island cut off from the rest of the world, what you do DOES impact others. Denying it doesn't make it any less true.
And no, I'm not trying to force anything on anyone.
Yeah, no one's doing that. But luckily, these things are not mutually exclusive. I can call the whole lot of these things stupid just as easily as I can pick a few.
But answer my question. If you see a kid get punched in the face by their mom or dad, are you gonna do something or mind your own business?
No, it is not any of your business, it has nothing to do with you....Period.
You are trying to compare apples and oranges to validate what you think is a point and it will not work. You are trying to impose your opinions and choices on others and it simply is not your place, no matter who much you think it may be.
Come to grips that not everyone is on the same page as you and does not agree, this is nothing more than your opinion.
You've said all this before, and I've countered it. How bout answering my question now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by stillkit
I smoked in the car with my kids. In the house too. So did my wife. When the kids rode with me in the big truck, I smoked all the way to California or New York and back with them sitting right there in a much more confined space than your average car.
Today, they're all in their 30's or 40's, perfectly healthy (except one with a degenerative nerve condition unrelated to smoking), gainfully employed and pretty darn good parents to boot. Their kids are healthy and normal too.
What consequences did my smoking around them have on society? Hmmmm?
First off, read again. I said how parents raise their children IN GENERAL affects society. And to the extent that your parenting influenced their success, I'd say that is a good example of how you impacted society without even thinking about it. Even though it was "none of their business" (as some would claim), it ended up making a difference in their lives, now didn't it?
I only said that making your kids breathe in cigarette smoke is stupid, and it is. Harmful effects or no, you don't just have kids breathing in smoke all the time. Did you KNOW that it wouldn't hurt them? Surely not, so why did you do it? Hmmmm?
Obviously, smoking is well known to cause quite a few health problems and this information is well disseminated. In essence, nobody can claim ignorance to the detrimental effect of tobacco on humans. There also seems to be rather convincing evidence that smoking (even second-hand smoke) can and will adversely affect a child's development.
As I waited at a red light today, I noticed that the car behind me had an girl (roughly eight years of age) on the passenger seat and a toddler in a child seat on the rear bench. The mother was vigorously smoking a cigarette while the windows were closed.
To me, people who smoke either have a really hard time breaking their addiction or they are stupidly choosing to ignore the problems associated with smoking. Still, since they are adult and since smoking is legal, I think that they have every right to be idiots and smoke. I do not appreciate that their habits cause higher health insurance rates, but so does eating an unhealthy diet or not exercising. Thus, for the sake of this argument, I am willing to ignore this.
What I don't get is why people would do this to their children (or to any child, really).
Some smokers on CD seem to argue that second-hand smoke has no adverse effects - but healthcare professionals seem to strongly contradict such assertions (as does common sense).
Any ideas?
I am a staunch advocate of smokers' rights. However, that means that YOUR right to smoke should not infringe on anyone else's rights.
Certainly when children are involved, they do not have the privilege of removing themselves from the offending smoke. Therefore, out of common courtesy, if nothing else, a parent should refrain from smoking where children are present if the child cannot get away from the smoke.
And I will repeat...it is none of your business. And I will also repeat that this ridiculous question you keep asking is irrelevant, as I said apples to oranges.
You have not countered anything. Your are simply trying to place yourself and your choices into an unwelcome place......that has nothing to do nor is it comparable with your question and you know that. You are simply trying to justify your stance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0
You've said all this before, and I've countered it. How bout answering my question now?
First off, read again. I said how parents raise their children IN GENERAL affects society. And to the extent that your parenting influenced their success, I'd say that is a good example of how you impacted society without even thinking about it. Even though it was "none of their business" (as some would claim), it ended up making a difference in their lives, now didn't it?
I only said that making your kids breathe in cigarette smoke is stupid, and it is. Harmful effects or no, you don't just have kids breathing in smoke all the time. Did you KNOW that it wouldn't hurt them? Surely not, so why did you do it? Hmmmm?
You've said all this before, and I've countered it. How bout answering my question now?
First off, read again. I said how parents raise their children IN GENERAL affects society. And to the extent that your parenting influenced their success, I'd say that is a good example of how you impacted society without even thinking about it. Even though it was "none of their business" (as some would claim), it ended up making a difference in their lives, now didn't it?
I only said that making your kids breathe in cigarette smoke is stupid, and it is. Harmful effects or no, you don't just have kids breathing in smoke all the time. Did you KNOW that it wouldn't hurt them? Surely not, so why did you do it? Hmmmm?
But, we're not talking about "in general." We're talking about smoking in cars in particular and how dreadfully dangerous it is, about how it's a serious enough "health problem" to warrant intervention.
Did I KNOW it wouldn't hurt them? Definitively and absolutely? No. But, I DID know that the massive amounts of cigarette smoke I inhaled hadn't done me any harm, so didn't suspect it would hurt them much either. It seems I was right, wasn't I?
Of course, to hear the alarmist's carry on, you'd think we'd all be dead or crippled by now because there is NO SAFE LEVEL OF SHS!
But, we're not talking about "in general." We're talking about smoking in cars in particular and how dreadfully dangerous it is, about how it's a serious enough "health problem" to warrant intervention.
Did I KNOW it wouldn't hurt them? Definitively and absolutely? No. But, I DID know that the massive amounts of cigarette smoke I inhaled hadn't done me any harm, so didn't suspect it would hurt them much either. It seems I was right, wasn't I?
Of course, to hear the alarmist's carry on, you'd think we'd all be dead or crippled by now because there is NO SAFE LEVEL OF SHS!
The harmfulness of SHS is still up for debate. Thus, you should err on the side of caution if anything. Kids deserve that much, to have say in what goes into their bodies - particularly when it stands to do no GOOD and maybe after they've been informed of the whole subject.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chromekitty
And I will repeat...it is none of your business. And I will also repeat that this ridiculous question you keep asking is irrelevant, as I said apples to oranges.
Do you not see the contradictory logic? HOW is it "apples and oranges"? Because one is certifiably harming the child and the other isn't, right? But someone striking their own child is just as much "none of your business" as anything else they do with them. Do you get it now? It depends on what's being done, it depends on how harmful it is. That's the point you should be arguing, because the other one cannot survive my question clearly.
I think some people don't consider, their bad habit is effecting their kids. I find cigarettes to be disgusting, filthy habit!!
I know, if I'm in a room full of cigarette smoke my eyes burn, I can smell it for days later, ugh they're just gross.
What's even more strange, they'll roll the window down, so they can breath and leave the windows up in the back of the car, for the kids to inhale it.
I remember what was my final straw with cigarettes.
We went on a 6 hour road trip with my parents, and my younger brother, who was born a bit premature and already had some health issues, got sick from the smoke.
They just said he was "nuts" and kept driving until they finally stopped at a wayside about 3 hours into the trip while he vomited about 12 times. Then it was right back on the road, smoking more cigs.
I hated cigs after that. Well, because of that and because we were forced to clean up their ashtrays after they had patio parties...
If cigarettes have been found to be so bad then why are they still being sold ?
The government says whole milk is not good for you and BLAMO schools get low fat milk.
The government says get your flu shot and BLAMO everywhere you turn there's someone with a needle ready to give you your shot.
Where's the BLAMO, no more cigarette sales from government ?
Why would he be kidding? It's a legitimate question IF tobacco smoke is as dangerous as its claimed to be, isn't it?
I mean, after all, if NO level of exposure is safe, it ought to be at the top of our priority list, right?
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