Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Katiana"someone else paying them off, in this case, by forgiveness".
Forgiveness is also an inaccurate thing to call it. Its actually a form of barter; military service is work, so paying off loans in lieu of service is barter. No different than paying a doctors loans off for working for lower rates than he'd earn elsewhere, in remote, rural regions.
How are recent college graduates supposed to pay cash for a car? Disparaging the arts is not cool, IMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq
To pay for a car in cash: Save up money from summer/nighttime/weekend jobs and buy a $2000 junker. Drive it for a year or two while you save up money for something better.
I have incredibly fond memories of working at an amusement park during the summer months when I was in high school. Hiiiiiiiiiiiigh school. I was paid slightly above minimum wage at the time. I drove my parents' beater car until I saved up enough money to buy the car I wanted. I worked as many hours as they would throw at me. I bought my first car with cash. If a recent COLLEGE graduate cannot figure out how to pay cash for a car, then I'm not sure what the future of this country is going to look like. What did they learn from K to college?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana
Many of the people who are teachers aren't real excited about teaching kids a financial philosophy. It's sort of like sex ed, just teach the facts.
Some of the issues you bring up have NO relevance to high school kids, even high school seniors. Someone from the firm that manages our 401K at work gave us a little seminar about investing, and they didn't recommend anything for people in their 20s. Most 20somethings do not have a lot of money left over after paying rent, car payments, student loan repayments, etc, to do any serious investing. Investment strategies change over time. The information would be irrelevant by the time they could use it.
I recall when my oldest daughter's high school Girl Scout troop did a finance badge. One of the leaders was real "hep" on investing, and had her daughter put her earnings from a PT job into a mutual fund. My own philosophy for PT jobs in HS was to use that money for personal needs, money that we would have otherwise had to give our kids.
Another company I worked for in my high school/college years gave you the option of buying into company stock. At that time, the stock was trading for $14 a share or so. I did not buy any, unfortunately. Today the stock is worth $80 a share. That kind of stuff would be highly relevant to any high school student. But we really don't teach life skills like finance/investing, even though it is something that will affect their entire life. I don't get it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana
Re: the bold-you are twisting my words. "Personal Finance" is a powderkeg. I personally wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole if I were a teacher. Let someone else be the object of "Mrs. 'Smith' said we should . . . ." when a kid tells his parents what he learned in finance.
Yes, and so they teach little Johny nothing and let him walk into a lifetime of debt because he was told to do that instead of learning how that loan will affect his future should he not pay it (garnished wages, how the interest rate on the loan will build, etc.). And then they want me to bail out little Johny. It's backwards.
I have incredibly fond memories of working at an amusement park during the summer months when I was in high school. Hiiiiiiiiiiiigh school. I was paid slightly above minimum wage at the time. I drove my parents' beater car until I saved up enough money to buy the car I wanted. I worked as many hours as they would throw at me. I bought my first car with cash. If a recent COLLEGE graduate cannot figure out how to pay cash for a car, then I'm not sure what the future of this country is going to look like. What did they learn from K to college?
I"ve kind of learned my lessons about using my kids as examples, and I"m tired of seeing them trashed. However, suffice it to say, the above is not the only situation regarding cars and college grads. I will say my daughter did not need to buy a new one until she finished grad school at which point the old beater had given up completely.
Another company I worked for in my high school/college years gave you the option of buying into company stock. At that time, the stock was trading for $14 a share or so. I did not buy any, unfortunately. Today the stock is worth $80 a share. That kind of stuff would be highly relevant to any high school student. But we really don't teach life skills like finance/investing, even though it is something that will affect their entire life. I don't get it.
You probably didn't buy the stuff b/c you couldn't afford it, which is my point. Sometimes you need to take care of immediate needs first. I've actually heard some financial planners say that buying company stock isn't such a great investment strategy.
Yes, and so they teach little Johny nothing and let him walk into a lifetime of debt because he was told to do that instead of learning how that loan will affect his future should he not pay it (garnished wages, how the interest rate on the loan will build, etc.). And then they want me to bail out little Johny. It's backwards.
Little Johnny won't know what any of that means until he is out and working. Of course, the RW wants kids working at 10, cleaning the schools, while their parents are laid off from their janitor's jobs.
Europe's higher education is skill/aptitude based. The students are tested and then split into vocational or academic.
Ones who don't make the academic track can still go on but have to do it on their own dime.
It's a setup that seems to work. Everyone has an opportunity to get an education appropriate to their aptitude.
This is correct, and it's been that way for a long time. In some cases as far back as the 19th century. This is also a reason why these same European countries _do_ have a strong safety net. Since children are "tracked" (usually at age 10 or so) into their futures: 40% workers, 40% tradesmen, and 20% professionals (approximate numbers in Germany), the state needs to guarantee certain minimum income standards for all, because the state has had a heavy hand in future income.
If Little John does not understand that loans must be repaid, he can go flip burgers, as he is NOT college material. He may get in, as they have seats to fill, but he should not have gotten in, and is wasting money.
Intelligent 18 years olds know the difference between a loan and a gift. They sign papers calling it a loan.
Whether they pay it off in 10,20, 25, or 50 years , it is a debt that must be honored.
I think the error you keep making is confusing the personal with the systemic. On a personal level, it would be ideal if all student debtors had plenty of money with which to pay off their loans in a timely manner.
On a systemic level, that just isn't happening - hence, we see rising default rates. That has systemic economic effects.
Simply screaming at individual debtors to pay back their loans (with money they don't have, for the most part) is not a solution or even a coherent response to the systemic problems associated with the student loan bubble.
And actually, student loan debts are often not honored - for one thing, they expire upon death. For another, an increasing number of former students are choosing to drop out of the "legitimate" economy altogether, or take jobs overseas, beyond easy reach of creditors.
I"ve kind of learned my lessons about using my kids as examples, and I"m tired of seeing them trashed. However, suffice it to say, the above is not the only situation regarding cars and college grads. I will say my daughter did not need to buy a new one until she finished grad school at which point the old beater had given up completely.
I don't recall you stating that you specifically said the car example was of your own children.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana
You probably didn't buy the stuff b/c you couldn't afford it, which is my point. Sometimes you need to take care of immediate needs first. I've actually heard some financial planners say that buying company stock isn't such a great investment strategy.
Buying company stock is one of the things you can do in the financial world. We need to teach this stuff at the high school level. I don't mind funding education if it is done right, and I don't think it is. Before the recession, you would have been hard-pressed to have this kind of conversation with anyone. You would have been told that you didn't know what you were talking about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana
Little Johnny won't know what any of that means until he is out and working. Of course, the RW wants kids working at 10, cleaning the schools, while their parents are laid off from their janitor's jobs.
That is your interjection. My statements have absolutely nothing to do with party affiliation. I am a product of the student-loan industry myself. It has nothing to do with right, left, rich or poor. That's just media games.
I don't recall you stating that you specifically said the car example was of your own children.
That's because I didn't say. I've learned. People on CD are mean.
Buying company stock is one of the things you can do in the financial world. We need to teach this stuff at the high school level. I don't mind funding education if it is done right, and I don't think it is. Before the recession, you would have been hard-pressed to have this kind of conversation with anyone. You would have been told that you didn't know what you were talking about.
In general, I feel part time jobs for high school and college students should be used to meet immediate needs. I think it's nuts for these kids to invest money, and then get spending money, gas money, etc. from their parents. Later, when they're making more money, they can do some investing. JMO.
That is your interjection. My statements have absolutely nothing to do with party affiliation. I am a product of the student-loan industry myself. It has nothing to do with right, left, rich or poor. That's just media games.
Fair enough. Again, I do think that until a person is self-supporting, they don't understand this stuff in a meaningful way.
tablemtn, They will end up honored, loans get deferred sometimes, but only 129 cleared through court last year. In future years, most not paying will see income tax refunds seized as has been the case for many years now.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
