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and people in America riot, chant kill all Muslims and then kill people because of it . . . does the president of Afghanistan owe the American people an apology?
Why not?
Americans respect the American flag. They've died for it. It represents our country.
Or maybe . . . just MAYBE . . . the flag like the koran is the piece of paper and maybe . . . just MAYBE the flag is only an idea and ideas can either survive or they can die.
I swear I almost want to wrap a koran and a torah in an American flag with a communion wafer and then drape it in a gay rights flag and then set the whole thing on fire just to burn everyone's sacred cow and be done with it.
I sympathize with your feelings, but there is a different aspect. Their country, their culture, their rules. We need to GET OUT. There is nothing and no one in Afganistan worth the life of an American Marine or soldier. If the Taliban takes control and keeps the population rooted in the 12th century, it's not our problem. If they want to ban Afgani girls from going to school or from working, it's not our problem. If they want to treat women as objects to be used and disposed of, it's not our problem. If they want to murder anyone that doesn't submit to their superstitions, it's not our problem. Their country, it's up to them to make something of it. Too many good men have died in this war.
If the Taliban is the ruling power and attacks us, or provides support and weapons to those that attack us, it's an act of war. In such an event we don't need troops on the ground rooting out individual murders, we need to focus on annihilation. Otherwise, you don't mess with us, we don't mess with you.
Last edited by Toyman at Jewel Lake; 02-23-2012 at 08:28 PM..
I'm an active duty soldier who will be deploying to Afghanistan in a few weeks. I find the original post to be ignorant blather. Afghans take the Koran very seriously. We know that. We receive training on that. The soldiers who burned the Korans (in view of local Afghans.. morons!) were extremely negligent in their duties and cost their fellow soldiers (two so far) and innocent Afghans their lives.
I'm not an Afghan. I have a different cultural mindset. I don't feel murderous rage when inanimate objects are burned, be they US flags, Bibles, crucifixes, etc. I'd like to think this is because I come from a culture that has advanced beyond magical thinking, but perhaps I'm just flattering myself and our culture. Whatever.
The point is that the soldiers should have known better. The Afghan interpreters who were on hand told the soldiers not to let the other Afghans who saw what they did go. Furthermore, they told them not to let the Afghans take the charred Korans with them into the streets. They, the intrepreters who understand Afghan culture, knew this would cause a ****storm. Oh well. They were allowed to take the charred Korans into the streets anyway.
The cultural stupidity of these soldiers is just inexcusable. I hope they realize they have blood on their hands, and they feel very sorry for being dull-witted drooling retards. They probably don't feel that way though. They probably feel indigant at these haughty Afghans who dare to care so much about their holy book. They probably would read the OP and think, hell yeah! Someone is saying it!
i blame the soldiers who burned the korans, but i blame the commanders even more so for evidently not making it clear that actions have consequences-and you better be prepared for the consequences.
i also blame the media for trotting out this story when they can't seem to get a handle on almost any other story out there. every time our soldiers do something bad/stupid/cruel we have media ready to pounce on it.
we are AT WAR, undeclared or not, and maybe they should also think about the consequences of their actions on OUR people. we are supposed to be on the "same side" here.
i blame the soldiers who burned the korans, but i blame the commanders even more so for evidently not making it clear that actions have consequences-and you better be prepared for the consequences.
i also blame the media for trotting out this story when they can't seem to get a handle on almost any other story out there. every time our soldiers do something bad/stupid/cruel we have media ready to pounce on it.
we are AT WAR and maybe they should also think about the consequences of their actions on OUR people. we are supposed to be on the "same side" here.
Florida, I appreciate your sentiments. Really, I do. This is not the media's fault though. The soldiers were burning the Korans in view of Afghans who work on the base. They became incensed. One 22-year Afghan said he was ready to fight to the death at what he saw. (Do I think his passion is moronic? Yes, I do ... but there it is ... I guess watching this was like watching someone **** on a picture of his mom or something.) The soldiers stopped after five minutes. They realized it was stupid to do. The interpreters on the base told the soldiers, uh oh ... this is going to be really bad... cover this up. Well, we're not Taliban. We're not going to do what they probably would have done in similar circumstances and shot the witnesses. Of course we let them go. They went into the streets and began screaming what they saw and everyone who heard became equally incensed.
This was just such a STUPID, totally avoidable error. We get training on this. To me, this is on par with not knowing how to handle your weapon and accidently shooting your buddy in the head. This is gross negligence.
Florida, I appreciate your sentiments. Really, I do. This is not the media's fault though. The soldiers were burning the Korans in view of Afghans who work on the base. They became incensed. One 22-year Afghan said he was ready to fight to the death at what he saw. (Do I think his passion is moronic? Yes, I do ... but there it is ... I guess watching this was like watching someone **** on a picture of his mom or something.) The soldiers stopped after five minutes. They realized it was stupid to do. The interpreters on the base told the soldiers, uh oh ... this is going to be really bad... cover this up. Well, we're not Taliban. We're not going to do what they probably would have done in similar circumstances and shot the witnesses. Of course we let them go. They went into the streets and began screaming what they saw and everyone who heard became equally incensed.
This was just such a STUPID, totally avoidable error. We get training on this. To me, this is on par with not knowing how to handle your weapon and accidently shooting your buddy in the head. This is gross negligence.
i agree that there are dead soldiers because of this, and that is a real tragedy that shouldn't have happened. i can't imagine how hard it would be if you were a responsible thinking soldier and you were stuck in combat with someone who couldn't logically think about behaviorial consequences.
i saw a you tube video on a soldier in afghanistan and he was saying that the people are so agrarian, so clueless, they have so little, and they really have no idea what is going on -didn't even know about 9-11. he said that he wouldn't have believed that if he hadn't seen the country with his own eyes, and the people.
i suppose the koran gives them a dream of a better future.
even sadder is the book burned had this passage:
Whoever saved a life,it would be as if he saved the life of all humanity."
<Qur'an-Maida 5:32>
Last edited by floridasandy; 02-23-2012 at 09:03 PM..
i agree that there are dead soldiers because of this, and that is a tragedy.
i saw a you tube video on a soldier in afghanistan and he was saying that the people are so clueless, they have so little, and have really no idea what is going on -didn't even know about 9-11.
even sadder is the book burned had this passage:
Whoever saved a life,it would be as if he saved the life of all humanity."
<Qur'an-Maida 5:32>
war is really hell.
I have been doing a lot of research on Afghanistan in preparation for my upcoming deployment. All of the most credible sources reveal that everyday Afghans by and large do not support the Taliban. They don't want their nation to be a platform for Islamic extremists to prepetuate global jihad. They just want to be left alone. They're tired of war. They're tired of poverty. They just want regular lives.
They are very conservative though. The Taliban is telling them daily that we, the Americans and Europeans, are having drunken orgies in our compounds over there. We're having a grand old time doing all kinds of sinful things, probably laughing at Allah as we do it too. (You know very religious people get strange ideas about more secular folks sometimes.) This Koran burning is just not helpful. It feeds right into the Taliban's PR campaign.
Oddly, this is worse than the Marines who urinated on the dead. Afghanistan is a brutal place. The Taliban exploited that a little, but they also kind of shrugged... truth be told, they do worse to our corpses is probably what they were thinking. This Koran thing though is unthinkable to the average Afghan. Why would anyone who is not an animal do such a thing? That's how they think about it.
I have been doing a lot of research on Afghanistan in preparation for my upcoming deployment. All of the most credible sources reveal that everyday Afghans by and large do not support the Taliban. They don't want their nation to be a platform for Islamic extremists to prepetuate global jihad. They just want to be left alone. They're tired of war. They're tired of poverty. They just want regular lives.
They are very conservative though. The Taliban is telling them daily that we, the Americans and Europeans, are having drunken orgies in our compounds over there. We're having a grand old time doing all kinds of sinful things, probably laughing at Allah as we do it too. (You know very religious people get strange ideas about more secular folks sometimes.) This Koran burning is just not helpful. It feeds right into the Taliban's PR campaign.
Oddly, this is worse than the Marines who urinated on the dead. Afghanistan is a brutal place. The Taliban exploited that a little, but they also kind of shrugged... truth be told, they do worse to our corpses is probably what they were thinking. This Koran thing though is unthinkable to the average Afghan. Why would anyone who is not an animal do such a thing? That's how they think about it.
maybe common sense will return to america and we will leave before you are deployed.
maybe common sense will return to america and we will leave before you are deployed.
it could happen.
I don't mind going, florida. It's an honor to represent our nation, even in these circumstances. The overwhelming majority of those of us in uniform feel the same way. As an American representative over there, I plan on showing nothing but the utmost respect for the Afhgans I encounter who mean me no harm. I plan on doing my best to show them that Americans are honorable people of good faith and good will.
I don't mind going, florida. It's an honor to represent our nation, even in these circumstances. The overwhelming majority of those of us in uniform feel the same way. As an American representative over there, I plan on showing nothing but the utmost respect for the Afhgans I encounter who mean me no harm. I plan on doing my best to show them that Americans are honorable people of good faith and good will.
First, thank you for your service. Your honor is a great example, and typical of many of the young (and not so young) men I have met that have served in the military, and particulary in combat in Afganistan and Iraq. I appreciate what you do for our nation. I also appreciate that the military is focusing on improving the future of Afgan citizens, and providing the country an honest chance to enter the 21st (or even the 20th) century.
I simply question if it is worth it. Which means, are they, the Afgan citizens, worth it? Soldiers I have talked with have related how the villagers hide the Tailban. How they find weapons in their homes all the time. How Afganis watch Taliban plant IEDs and then watch as Americans are blown up, while saying nothing. Of how they torture animals for entertainment. One man described how his platoon used to buy up all the birds, dogs and cats the Afgan kids brought to them. Otherwise they would kill them for entertainment. I understand their COP started to look like an animal shelter.
I strongly question if the lives of Afganis are worth the lives of American service members. If they didn't want the Taliban and their brutality, they would be a whole lot more active opposing them, rather than letting men like you do all the dirty work. I think we could do better with some of the best, brightest and most honorable men and women in our society.
I support what you do, and I hope my comments aren't demoralizing. That certainly isn't my intent. I hope you and your fellow soldiers come home alive and intact.
Last edited by Toyman at Jewel Lake; 02-23-2012 at 09:47 PM..
Florida, I appreciate your sentiments. Really, I do. This is not the media's fault though. The soldiers were burning the Korans in view of Afghans who work on the base. They became incensed. One 22-year Afghan said he was ready to fight to the death at what he saw. (Do I think his passion is moronic? Yes, I do ... but there it is ... I guess watching this was like watching someone **** on a picture of his mom or something.) The soldiers stopped after five minutes. They realized it was stupid to do. The interpreters on the base told the soldiers, uh oh ... this is going to be really bad... cover this up. Well, we're not Taliban. We're not going to do what they probably would have done in similar circumstances and shot the witnesses. Of course we let them go. They went into the streets and began screaming what they saw and everyone who heard became equally incensed.
This was just such a STUPID, totally avoidable error. We get training on this. To me, this is on par with not knowing how to handle your weapon and accidently shooting your buddy in the head. This is gross negligence.
Good points, and the post before this one too
Unfortunately, coming so soon after some other incidents, it is like that proverbial straw. Purely by chance,taken together, it could certainly appear as if U.S. forces have little respect or regard for the feelings of those they are occupying.
Another perfect storm.
and people in America riot, chant kill all Muslims and then kill people because of it . . . does the president of Afghanistan owe the American people an apology?
Why not?
Americans respect the American flag. They've died for it. It represents our country.
Or maybe . . . just MAYBE . . . the flag like the koran is the piece of paper and maybe . . . just MAYBE the flag is only an idea and ideas can either survive or they can die.
I swear I almost want to wrap a koran and a torah in an American flag with a communion wafer and then drape it in a gay rights flag and then set the whole thing on fire just to burn everyone's sacred cow and be done with it.
Nobody respects the flag anymore, not even the President.
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