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That's just what the Jews, Kurds ,American Indians, any number of African tribes thought...We don't need guns...... our goverment will take care of us...................Look at them all now......They're either dead, on the res, subjugated or they learned the lesson and took up arms in their own defense....Go ahead and join the sheep........... not me or mine.......
NONSENSE!
If your government chooses to run amock with your rights (it already has for decades and you haven't taken up arms yet, but I digress) what do you propose to do about it.
You probaly haven't exchanged ten words with your nearest neighbour in the last year but suddenly you alone or in a loose collection of nutbars is going to effectively counter your entire military complex from top to bottom with your nickle plated, 45 ACP, Wilson Combat?
You got an F-15 in your garage to challenge air superiority, Bradley hidden in the bush somewhere to go up against those National Guardsmen sent into your neighbourhood in their Coyotes. with 20 mil's?
C'mon here; the second amendment was crafted when there were no weapons available to any standing army other than the SAME weapons available to private citizens.
Your founding fathers could not possibly have foreseen the development of weapons far outstripping the ability of the private citizen to form effective militias to counter a government gone postal.
Let's strip this argument down to it's most relevant part for todays reality, you don't adhere to your 2nd rights because of your gov't. You cling to them for reason's of sport, ego and self defence only and the latter is why? Because your fellow citizens are all armed to the teeth and they're not all nice people like yourself!
Good Grief! A whole country feeling the need to carry guns to defend themselves against each other.
How do you know people in the National Guard aren't thinking the same as many of us do and plans are already in place to make sure the right people get the right weapons when they need them?
As for nutbars..... let me dump a nice warm one on your plate and you can eat it!.......
Well, it's possible .... he's already changed to once, from Barry Soetero, to his new Christian moniker
The least you should know when making absurd arguments is that Barry Soetoro would be a Christian moniker. Not "Barack" (or "Barak" in Hebrew). Never mind that this idea that calling him Barack Hussein makes one look smart, is rather amusing in itself. (Hint to those folks: I've met Christians in other countries with that middle name... doesn't make them Muslim or Christian).
If your government chooses to run amock with your rights (it already has for decades and you haven't taken up arms yet, but I digress) what do you propose to do about it.
You probaly haven't exchanged ten words with your nearest neighbour in the last year but suddenly you alone or in a loose collection of nutbars is going to effectively counter your entire military complex from top to bottom with your nickle plated, 45 ACP, Wilson Combat?
You got an F-15 in your garage to challenge air superiority, Bradley hidden in the bush somewhere to go up against those National Guardsmen sent into your neighbourhood in their Coyotes. with 20 mil's?
C'mon here; the second amendment was crafted when there were no weapons available to any standing army other than the SAME weapons available to private citizens.
Your founding fathers could not possibly have foreseen the development of weapons far outstripping the ability of the private citizen to form effective militias to counter a government gone postal.
Let's strip this argument down to it's most relevant part for todays reality, you don't adhere to your 2nd rights because of your gov't. You cling to them for reason's of sport, ego and self defence only and the latter is why? Because your fellow citizens are all armed to the teeth and they're not all nice people like yourself!
Good Grief! A whole country feeling the need to carry guns to defend themselves against each other.
OK - to your first point- I agree that an insurgence against our govt' forces is a losing proposition, but at least there is a threat of violence, which if taken away would enable a tyranniical gov't to act quite casually about the subjugation of its citizens. Regarding your second point about the need to defend oneself- this is not a result of gun access. Ask the people of the UK, Canada, and Australia if they were safer before their gun bans.
In this regard, though it may be distasteful to some, the gun lobby cliches about "...only criminals would have guns.." etc. is exactly correct.
Ask the people of the UK, Canada, and Australia if they were safer before their gun bans.
If guns were a great thing to have, people and businesses would have no issue allowing others to carry around. Yet, we see businesses and people, not being comfortable with the idea of strangers with guns.
IMO, the very premise of "gun rights" is based on false ground. The idea is probably implemented best in Switzerland, where people are expected to defend their country.
Having said that, this thread ain't about that either, but about what dictates the limits, the definition of arms? There is nothing in the US Constitution about it.
The least you should know when making absurd arguments is that Barry Soetoro would be a Christian moniker. Not "Barack" (or "Barak" in Hebrew). Never mind that this idea that calling him Barack Hussein makes one look smart, is rather amusing in itself. (Hint to those folks: I've met Christians in other countries with that middle name... doesn't make them Muslim or Christian).
If your daddy is a muslim then YOU are a muslim regardless how many baths you take.
If your daddy is a muslim then YOU are a muslim regardless how many baths you take.
That isn't how it works, but even if it did, so what? I will surely convey that idea of yours to one of the greatest atheists among my friends, who was raised Catholic. It will be all in fun though.
Let's start from the position that you're allowed to own anything that qualifies as "arms" -- guns, blades, explosives, artillery, etc.
That fails because that is not what the 2nd Amendment says.
In plain ordinary English, what the 2nd Amendment says is that the federal government is not allowed to make any laws with respect to firearms. Accordingly, the BATF is an illegal entity and has no jurisdiction except in those areas that are exclusively under federal control. Once such area that is exclusively under federal control is Guantanamo.
The several States are the only lawful and constitutional authorities permitted to make any laws regarding weapons, since it is the several States that are constitutionally charged with the task of regulating militias, and not the federal government.
That fails because that is not what the 2nd Amendment says.
In plain ordinary English, what the 2nd Amendment says is that the federal government is not allowed to make any laws with respect to firearms.
If, simple English, is about a matter of changing the context to something that would fit the bill. Such as replacing "right to bear arms" with "right to bear firearms".
From Madison's presentation of the Bill of Rights...
"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; a well armed and well regulated militia being the best security of a free country; but no person religiously scrupulous of bearing arms shall be compelled to render military service in person."
My take on the subject is that the second and third sentences elaborate on the first (but that makes for a different thread, since this is about defining "arms").
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