The American Flag....How do you feel about it? (Iraq, enemies, generation)

[milquetoast]

Will this thread incite as much passion as the confederate one?

[happynoodleboycey]

This is an interesting one. I really like seeing the pictures of suburban American streets with loads of houses with the Stars & Stripes hanging outside because it's a symbol of how proud those people are of their country. About a year ago though I saw a picture of an American squad liberating an Iraqi village and the guy on top of one of the tanks was waving an American flag around. That to me gave off more a sense of "We've conquered you" instead of "We've liberated you".

[milquetoast]

4 minutes for a response, that has to be a record! Especially at this time in the morning. Yeah, we're conquerers. That's all we do, run around, spilling our blood, conquering everybody.

[vegaspilgrim]

Great thread, milquetoast! The American flag I like. I think it deserves to be treated with respect and raised above all other flags. To me personally, I think it represents "America"-- the land and the people of this country-- the American homeland-- more than it does the US federal government, and the actions it does across the world. I think too many people these days forget the distinction. It is perfectly okay to vocally disagree with the federal government (as long as you're still a law-abiding citizen) and still be proud to be an American. And contrary to what I've heard some people on this forum say, the Stars and Stripes represents ALL of America-- not just one particular region. It represents Missouri, Kansas, Illinois, Mississippi, Texas, and Virginia, and it also includes New York, Massachusetts, California, Colorado, and Hawaii. North, south, east, and west. It includes liberals, and it includes conservatives. All 50 states.

[dynimagelv]

Originally Posted by milquetoast

4 minutes for a response, that has to be a record! Especially at this time in the morning. Yeah, we're conquerers. That's all we do, run around, spilling our blood, conquering everybody.

Guess that's what we were doing at Iwo Jima, Normandy, Guadalcanal etc etc etc just conquering for ourselves.

I get really torqued when I see someone desecrating the flag.

[expgc]

Originally Posted by boycew02

This is an interesting one. I really like seeing the pictures of suburban American streets with loads of houses with the Stars & Stripes hanging outside because it's a symbol of how proud those people are of their country. About a year ago though I saw a picture of an American squad liberating an Iraqi village and the guy on top of one of the tanks was waving an American flag around. That to me gave off more a sense of "We've conquered you" instead of "We've liberated you".

Really!! Since the U.S. has had to liberate many areas of the world including England in WWII I don't really care what anyone thinks about a G.I. who has just put his butt on the line to save some village or some country and decides to wave the stars & stripes in victory.

[Delta Planter]

"Will this thread incite as much passion as the confederate one?"

Your thread incited me to write a column on your subject, and I submit it here, FWIW:

The American Flag - How Do You Feel About It? - © Kent Fletcher
September 17, 2007

This subject came up on a website called City-Data.com in the U.S. Forum section. The author wondered if this topic was going to get the same interest as the discussion of the Confederate flag, and the answer is a blatant, NO!

Why, I wonder? After all, the Confederate flag is one which has been, for the most part, retired for over 100 years, although held in great reverence by subcultures around the world as a symbol of hate, of slavery, of superiority by a white race. It was beaten up, shredded, and burned by the Union forces of the War of North Aggression, as some folks in the South still call the Civil War, yet, it lives on, and on.

Today, September 17, by coincidence, is Constitution Day in these United States. Did you know that? While it is not a federal holiday, it is still a significant day in the history of the United States, as being the day of ratification and signing of the Constitution of these United States, beginning with a small enclave of states on the east coast and eventually spreading across the land between the countries of Canada and Mexico, and beyond, for that matter. From the website Home - Constitution Day - Constitution Day (http://hancock.constitutioncenter.org/constitutionday/display/MainS/Home - broken link), comes this statement:

On Sept. 17, 1787, the U.S. Constitution was signed by thirty-nine brave men who changed the course of history. Now Constitution Day is a time for us to continue their legacy and develop habits of citizenship in a new generation of Americans.

The preamble of our Constitution reads thus:

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

The Preamble and all the Articles can be found here: LII: Constitution. I suppose it wouldn't hurt me to really go read the Constitution and all its Amendments throughout the last 220 years, as I don't think I've ever done it before.

But the Constitution is not really the subject here. The United States Flag is the subject for this writing. And the questions is how do I feel about it? I must think about this a little bit, get all my ducks in a row, attempt to make some sense of my answer.

For instance, I served my country in the United States Navy for some 20 years, 3 months, and 16 days, active duty and reserve duty combined. Seems longer than that, but the cumulative is all that counts. I solemnly swore to uphold the flag and the orders of the officers appointed over me, and to the best of my ability, I truly believe that is what I did. Sometimes it was an effort because some of the officers were really dunces, but that's another matter, I guess. Heck, even some of the enlisted folks were dunces, too.

Hence, here is the current USN oath of enlistment:

The Oath of Enlistment

I, ___________________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

Yep, that's close enough for me, after all, I swore in on April 9, 1970, a mere 37 years ago. Sheez! But where does the "feeling" for the flag come in the picture? I must explore that a bit, maybe in another column, but for all intents and purposes, I'll just have to go with my gut feeling at this moment.

The United States Flag has its own history, and I'll not delve into that here, other than to say it stands for all the ideals of the United States citizenry today. It is the symbol of freedom for peoples far and wide, and it has a draw on peoples far and wide that those peoples will risk limb and life to get inside our borders, legally or illegally. I cannot imagine another person not of United States citizenry in their desire and risks to attain this country, to acknowledge their dreams and desires to live under this flag, to obey the laws of the land, to become productive members of a society steeped in tradition and conflict, at the same time.

I'll cut to the chase, here, and say that I love my United States Flag, for all it stands for, for all the tribulations it has stood for in the past 200+ years. While a lot of folks take negative stock of the desecration of the flag, it is but a simple stitched-together piece of cloth in hard-core terms. All the flags I've ever owned, when the time comes that the flag is tattered, torn, discolored to distraction, it is then that I burn the flag in a private ceremony, retiring it to a place of honor. Then I'll get another flag and fly it as proud as the last one.

It is the symbolism of the United States Flag that counts, and that's all there is to it. As long as the Constitution of these United States rule the citizenry, and the citizenry abides by those rules, that's all that counts. The flag is the symbol of freedom for all the countries around the world, and will continue to be as long as there are freedom-loving people to protect said symbolism.

So, back to the subject, The American Flag - How Do You Feel About It? I love it, I wish to live nowhere else in the world but under it, and I will defend the Flag and the Constitution to my dying breath against all, ALL enemies, foreign AND domestic!

[66nexus]

Americans DIED for that flag. I salute the red and white every time I get a chance. For the soldiers before me who died, and for the ones who will. People don't have to respect the flag as I do, but just remember the soldiers if nothing else

[SpeedyAZ]

I was brought up to respect and honor the flag. My father was a Marine and my grandfather was in the Army during WWII. The both served their country and saluted that flag every single day. It really burns my toast when I see some young kid who doesn't take his hat off when they sing the national anthem and I have personally done it for them. We all must remember that the flag stands for freedom that we as Americans enjoy.

[coldwine]

It's my country's flag. Aesthetically it's an OK flag, the colors are a bit nauseating to me (I just do not like red/blue combos in stripes). Other than that, I feel the same affection for it as any national