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btw, Sam, I don't buy the basic premiss that free trade is based on. It's a flawed theory that's corporate-driven. It's not better to get cheaper goods from China, unless you have an agenda to strengthen China, which is what Free Trade is doing a very good job of.
Oh well. Too late today to open a whole other argument. 'Night everybody.
btw, Sam, I don't buy the basic premiss that free trade is based on. It's a flawed theory that's corporate-driven. It's not better to get cheaper goods from China, unless you have an agenda to strengthen China, which is what Free Trade is doing a very good job of.
Oh well. Too late today to open a whole other argument. 'Night everybody.
Yet it's easier to fill your pockets as a CEO if you build your products in China. In that case, it's better for the CEO.
btw, Sam, I don't buy the basic premiss that free trade is based on. It's a flawed theory that's corporate-driven. It's not better to get cheaper goods from China, unless you have an agenda to strengthen China, which is what Free Trade is doing a very good job of.
And on the other side of that equation, America is much more materially wealthy. The idea that restricting our own people from commerce will somehow increase prosperity is just... insane.
Tariffs:
* Make us pay more for the same material products.
* Keep uncompetitive industries on life support when we should be diverting energy into new industries in which we are more efficient and therefore able to generate more actual wealth.
* Didn't work last time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHurricaneKid
Yet it's easier to fill your pockets as a CEO if you build your products in China. In that case, it's better for the CEO.
What's better for the consumer is usually better for the CEO as consumers spend money on things they want to buy. In this case, cheap Chinese made plastic crap.
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Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth
You already have a lower tax rate, if you're a big corporate mucky-muck hiring top execs. Unless you're just in the HR Dept.
Not even close. I'm 23 and I do software architecture. My point is, tax rates can definitely factor into market rates. I know because I am in a higher bracket and am currently on 1099 (= getting completely screwed), all of which does indeed factor into what I'll work for. I only "make" what I make after taxes. Increase my tax rate to 80% and I (along with anyone else in my position) will just raise our prices. We'll get paid regardless, people need us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth
Do you have a theory for the cause of the distortion? Sounds like you don't, yet.
No, but I'll think of something. I hope you're not trying to discredit me, just because I don't know doesn't mean I should latch onto any other theory.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth
It's possible that the factor that caused pay to skyrocket may not be the one that brings it back down. I can see how it may not be that simple. It's worth a try, though, if you ask me. It depends on how the change would be enacted.
Possible, yes, a good solution, no. Band-aid at best.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth
So you do support a progressive tax. That's nice. But how does that fit in with your theory that a more progressive tax would cost the corporations more?
Because in reality nothing is as simple as I'm trying to make it sound, it's just that certain things do tend to hold true. But 90% is too high. A 90% tax represents a focus not on whatever may be able to make work in reality to make things more "fair", but a shift to an entirely different theory which is flawed IMO.
And I'm actually kind of on the fence about that one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth
You bet! Where does the corporation's savings from that 10% cut (x however many employees) go, though? I might prefer a higher capital gains tax, I'd have to think about it all, and get all the facts.
Higher capital gains taxes, historically, have not been much better for revenue.
That explains a few things. Still, upper-middle-class pay, like for doctors and lawyers, was at around 65%, and no real loopholes.
Those are the last people we need to worry about taxing more. They get screwed worse than anybody. And they're not evil rich CEOs, so my point remains.
National sales tax is regressive. Corporate tax isn't. So how would that be an improvement?
I don't see it that way because the consumer is paying it one way or the other. At least if it's itemized as tax on products the consumer gets to see it for what it is. Look at this way:
Typical way gasoline is priced:
Cost: $3.99/gal taxes included
Why isn't it priced this way:
$3.49/gal + $0.50 fuel tax
The reason it isn't is because a lot of consumers are going to be a little bit pissed off especially if the price goes down since the fuel taxes are static.
Taking it a step further by eliminating the tax on corporations/business's the cost of the item is dropped lower but to make up that lost revenue the government adds a sales.
$2.49/gal + $0.50 fuel tax + $1.00 Sales tax
You're still paying the same thing for the product but now you know how much the government is pilfering from your pocket.
What is it you think will be accomplished by raising taxes on corporations and business's other than the cost of products going up?
The "raise taxes on corporations" mantra gets a lot mileage for many politicians but you fail to realize that ultimately you're just asking to be taxed yourself. You will be the one buying products from these companies at increased costs. The politicians love it because this tax you are paying is nicely hidden away in the cost of products where you the consumer never see it as a tax.
If you raise taxes on XYZ corporation you don't expect they will increase the cost of their products? Do you think the management of that comapnay as their sitting around the board room after finding out the government wants an extra few billion in taxes is just going to decide to eat it?
Last edited by thecoalman; 04-23-2012 at 04:56 AM..
A battle over the budget is closing our schools, our libraries, firing our teachers and taking away collective bargaining rights. While the banks and largest corporations are also not paying any taxes, including Bank of America, Exxon Mobil, and GE. Protesters today gathered in NYC's Union Square for the Sound of Resistance protest. The Nation Institute's Chris Hedges weighs in.
"Raising" taxes on corporations? In many cases it's a matter of getting corporations to pay any tax, i.e. closing loopholes. If corporations want to maintain the fictitious status of "persons", they need to pay taxes like "persons". Bank of America actually got some kind of tax refund in the millions from the Fed Gov't! Why shouldn't corporations pay their fair share?
Change the tax code.
Everyone wants it.
obama chooses to blame "millionaires and billionaires" because it hits the emotional cord of a lot of sheeple.
After all, "man child in chief" claimed EVERY single deduction (aka. loophole) that he could. Why shouldn't everyone?
Eliminate the corporate/business taxes altogether along with the loopholes putting every business on the same playing field. Taxes for individuals is another topic.
I'd support pork that makes companies tax free IF they create decent manufacturing jobs here in the US. Companies that use our infrastructure (that I'm paying for) to create jobs out of the country should just pack up and leave--why are we giving them any kind of break at all?
So either way, the citizenry is screwed, that's what you're saying. Cheers.
edit: Wait, what about this: the corporations pay their execs reasonable salaries, cut perks, skip the stock options, or substitute stock options for pay, and use that money to *GASP* pay some taxes? Sounds like a plan!
Yes, a very bad one. Corporations are private free to pay their peole what they want. Coporations pay taxes. It is a great obfuscation of facts to assert they don't If they are not paying taxes here, it is because they are getting credit for foreign taxes or other causes.
We have the highest coporate tax rates in the developed world, and then wonder why they do all in their power to arrange their business to avoid them?????
And it is universally correct, costs, all costs, including taxes, are recouped from the customers theof. In the ultimate analysis, that is you and me.
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