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Location: Huntersville/Charlotte, NC and Washington, DC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tablemtn
I'd also note that the "guys living in the basement" demographic is probably not the main cause of concern; that population may be growing, but it's still not especially large. The larger group would be "men living on their own and happy that way." The trends from the census data are quite clear; average age of marriage for women continues to rise, and an increasing proportion of adult women fall into the "never been married" category, as well as the "childless" category.
However we look at that, it's certainly a big social shift relative to how things used to work. And I can see why some women are very frustrated with the new state of affairs.
But these articles seem to be phrasing things as, "We've got a marriage crisis, and to solve it, men have to change their ways."
My point is, men don't have that much incentive to change their ways. A lot of men consider their unmarried, childless lives to be "good enough," while many women do not.
It's not up to men to bridge that gap. Men have always had a weaker "natural" drive to pair up and raise kids. If you're looking toward men to reform themselves in order to bring back the marriage and family formation rates of the 1950's, you're not going to get very far.
I think the best thing to happen to men is to realize that they having a family is a choice rather than a requirement today. With the rising cost of having a family thanks to healthcare and shrinking wages, it is a choice more men should really carefully consider. I even raised this question for myself in this thread.
How about if you had sickle cell and you couldn't do physical work at all due to your condition. Or you had such a horrible speech impediment people couldn't understand when you talked and assumed your retarded?
People like you don't see the issues or problems other people have and label them all bums when they don't have what you think people should have. Don't blame video games or porn, that's natural.
Blame feminism, higher standards in women, uncle Sam handouts, stupid Americans who can't see outside of money and the media who loves to cause separation. These lonely educated women deserve whatever misery they get, they wanted it and they got it.
I hate to tell you this, but men like that--with a serious disease, or a speech impediment, or who are socially awkward--have NEVER had an easy time finding a date, let alone a wife. I don't know where you grew up, but I'm middle aged, and every small town in America can name a family or two of brothers who were a little odd, never married, and lived together until they died. What in the heck does that have to do with feminism? Feminism is about the ability of women to make the same choices as men, vs. having to live a certain way just because they were born female. If you feel threatened by that, I don't doubt that you have a hard time dating.
^^^^ That is true but guys like stick2dascript want to blame feminism and the govt. There have always been people of both genders who never married. Society was kinder to men by calling them bachelors as if was always the man's choice to stay single. It wasn't so kind to us women with the name spinster which implies that you are unwanted and pathetic. Women have to be careful because there are a lot of angry and hostile men out there who think that women have taken everything from them.
That is a big part of the problem. Many of us young men grew up without solid father figures in the home, a problem that is getting worse. There are things boys need to learn from men to become men and they are not getting those things.
Every generation seems to believe only they had it hard, and relatively speaking, they're coming up way short on gratitude minus polio or wasting away in a tuberculosis asylum. Present tense the meth lab dad and psycho dad and hugh heffner are not dads. That's your single mom population that everyone vilifies but they're the first one blamed if daddy harms the kids-- if it's always her fault no matter what, she doesn't see a point in having a man in her life if it's a stooge he's really looking for. Sometimes you're better off not having any example at all if it's going to be an abusive one of abysmal character. Leave the space in their learning curve for decent men leading by example. Hopefully at school, in Church, or in sports- but the past few years it seems like they only pick up vicious habits in sports. Women were rethinking that for their sons long before Sandusky scandal. Being a man does not mean competing brands of brutality/ thuggery, but sports figures aren't gentlemen Joe DiMaggio's anymore.
Men used to invest more of themselves in the community and be more generous with themselves volunteering in little league etc. I know it meant a lot to a boy whose dad died in Korea. He made a point of tracking down my colleague to let him know 25yrs after the fact how much he appreciated Fred stepping up for him with advice. He was a lost boy and felt like he had to be stoic for his mammas sake, but life was overwhelming him. He wanted to let him know he was doing well. Had 3 kids of his own. Steady eddy.
I owe a debt of gratitude to men I served with in military. It spared me more grief dodging Mr Wrong x 50 knowing well the difference what a solid stand up guy looks like. Illness broke up my family and being oldest I had to carry my little sis way before I was ready to take over parent duty. I hadn't grown up myself yet and I had no idea what I was doing. They lent me faith and courage I never thought I had. Git er done. Aye Aye Capt'n.
These days in my volunteer work with stray animals approaching the general public men are cold and don't want to get involved in anything to do with community. They answer the door ready to close it before it opens. Younger generation men spend time at the schoolyard to play with their kids. The previous generation not so much. Too busy pushing kids out of the way to get to their job, and too busy pushing them away when they get home from their job. Never too busy for 5hrs of television. American males, dads or not: you are MORE than your jobs. You just need to realize it. Women didn't steal it, you left it on the floor. What's needful around you? Whatever it is pick it up without grousing.
I'm saying all this because I'm paying it forward. That's what's kept America strong. If it works, use it. If it doesn't, hammer out a better plan and pay that forward.
You have been watching too many movies if you think all young men are interested is sex. Some are more interested in video games or other diversions. When I was young it was sports. Oh, and the story of the mother who drove her son to work? My mother says a lot of her friends do as their children lost their drivers licenses, usually by driving drunk.
Why would I have to watch movies when I'm a part of that group?
Video games hold a big interest, yes.
But once they figure out how to use it, video games can often take second place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tablemtn
Interestingly, that's one of the main reason that many "founding fathers" in early America supported steep estate taxes - they felt that it would corrupt the moral character of heirs to simply get a bunch of "money for nothing."
I forget where I was reading it... But as financial planners have been moving from working with the parents to the kids, they're seeing a drop in the ability of the kids to keep up with what the parents attained. Without their inheritance, they wouldn't be what their parents made them in their will.
Last edited by LordSquidworth; 07-19-2012 at 09:42 PM..
^^^^ That is true but guys like stick2dascript want to blame feminism and the govt. There have always been people of both genders who never married. Society was kinder to men by calling them bachelors as if was always the man's choice to stay single. It wasn't so kind to us women with the name spinster which implies that you are unwanted and pathetic. Women have to be careful because there are a lot of angry and hostile men out there who think that women have taken everything from them.
I'm convinced Rush Limbaugh gets kick backs from brothels. He's maintaining his customer base full of venom and contempt. It dovetails nicely with the think tank funding coming from beer sales and FOX playing in the background. Drink coors, hate on women, kill doves, vote R. Somehow their lives just keep getting more twisted and bitter. Gee I wonder why.
I don't have to be careful. They have to be careful because I'm trained to exercise my 2nd amendment with or without firearms. Must be that unsinkable Molly Dodd.
That is a big part of the problem. Many of us young men grew up without solid father figures in the home, a problem that is getting worse. There are things boys need to learn from men to become men and they are not getting those things.
I coached Youth sports for a few years and the kids that had no father in they're life did have it rougher then the ones that did. Relying on Teachers and Coaches as role models is not the same as being raised by a good dad.
Men are driven by sex, right? Well... Why would we want relationships when women's panties drop easier and easier every year?
That's because we need to put less and less effort into getting laid.
Because they offer more challenge than women do.
As long as women allow men to be boys... they'll be boys.
Men are what women allow them to be. I love women, but they've become too easy. I'm young at 23 still, but I'm observant. When men don't have to work, its only natural they become lazy.
im sure the quality of women u've been with or are after is stellar
The article brought up the issue of marriage. I think men are starting to realize that marriage does not benefit them and can be a raw deal.
For many of them marriage would be the best thing that can happen to them, but they are the ones least likely to get married,
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