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View Poll Results: Why is the U.S. such a violent nation?
black on black crime 51 19.62%
Gov't has failed to adequately provide the less fortunate with the resources needed to succeed 56 21.54%
lack of police funding / laws not enforced strongly enough 33 12.69%
violent culture glorified by Hollywood, rap music and/or and popular culture in general 98 37.69%
I don't believe the U.S. is a violent nation. 54 20.77%
Other please explain 49 18.85%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 260. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-04-2007, 08:32 AM
NCN
 
Location: NC/SC Border Patrol
21,663 posts, read 25,542,728 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bily4 View Post
Huh? We have more people incarcerated than anybody else in the world. Our prisons can't keep up with the demand. I don't know where you get your statistic about prisoners and God (could you provide a link)?
But I would imagine that after spending some time in our justice system that might drive one to question how a compassionate God could allow that sort of existence to go on.
I am retired. Finding facts used to be my job and this is one that stuck with me because I thought it was so interesting. It explains a lot to me. Isn't it sad that with all the criminals running loose that the prisons can't keep up. That statistic may have changed, but I think it is pretty much true and explains the high crime. People do not have to resort to crime. That is a choice. More police won't help, self control and moral living will. Blaming it on society that one does crime is just an excuse. Maturity speaking!

Also, I had a missionary friend tell me that when they went into an area and started spreading the gospel, the first thing they noticed is that the nights got more quiet, because violence decreased. What percentage of our population is in prison? Like I say, I am retired, so I am not going to look that up, but if something would lower crime by that percentage, wouldn't it be worth a try? Have a good day!

Last edited by NCN; 10-04-2007 at 08:47 AM..
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Old 10-04-2007, 09:01 AM
 
Location: Blankity-blank!
11,446 posts, read 16,150,337 times
Reputation: 6958
In America, violence is often regarded as entertainment; TV is full of violence...supply and demand. When showing upcoming movie features, there will always be a scene where someone gets punched...to entice viewers. The wrestling on TV (which I believe is fake) depicts violence and brutality. The more brutal, the better. American media (TV and movies) subtly promote brawn over brain. Heros are brawny, not brainy.
In America a "Real Man" is one who uses his fists and his weapons to accomplish objectives. This kind is admired. Real men own guns, wussies don't.
Violence is usually the primary way to settle conflicts. Diplomacy or thinking is not. These are usually used only as last resorts, when violence fails.
What about the old theory that America is violent because it is a sexually suppressed society? As emtional outlets, violence is acceptable, sex is not.
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Old 10-04-2007, 09:03 AM
 
539 posts, read 1,919,546 times
Reputation: 436
Damn I was gone for 12 hours and look how this thread has grown.


A couple of brief points -



@ hawkeye48:


I understand your point. I don't like it, because I don't tolerate disrespect, period. So even though I do see your point and understand why cops are that way, I still don't like it and I still don't like the police. But I can't think of any good solutions to the problem, so I think the best thing we can do is just leave it at that.


As for gun control, please people. Do any of the supporters of gun control live in the real world? In the vast majority of incidents where people are shot, the person who pulled the trigger possessed the gun illegaly. Virginia Tech was a prime example of that. I'm sure guns were illegal on the campus of VA Tech, as they are on virtually every college campus in the U.S. Did that stop him from killing 33 people in cold blood? No. When people get killed on the streets in the drug trade or in the midst of gangbanging, you think those guys took the time to go down to the Sheriff's office and legally apply for a pistol license? Or do you think they just bought the guns off of the street?


We have gun laws already folks. Plenty of them. But they don't work. You know why? Because it doesn't matter if you make something illegal or not, if people want it bad enough, they will get it. It's as simple as that.


Cocaine has been illegal in the U.S. for about 100 years now, and yet kilos upon kilos of cocaine still find their way into this country all the time, every day, via the Mexican border and the Port of Miami. This is a well known fact, the government knows it, we know it, everybody knows it. And yet cocaine and it's cheap cousin crack are sold on the streets of countless U.S. cities all of the time, every day. It hasn't been stopped and probably won't ever be stopped unless the demand decreases, which I don't forsee happening anytime soon. Even if it does, the drug dealers will simply "adjust to the market" and "diversify the economy" by selling a new drug, like meth, which is to the 2000s what crack was to the 1980s.


Bottom line - the drug trade is a large reason for the violence and why it continues. But the U.S. government has basically proven itself unable to stop the flow of illegal drugs into this country, so the violence will continue. And more gun laws, or enforcement of current ones, won't do anything to stop it. For the most part, guns and drugs are illegal now and yet they're everywhere in America's cities and even in rural areas and suburban areas now.



As for stiffer penalites, well...............I don't know if you've ever taken a Constitutional Law class, but there is this thing called the 8th Amendment. It specifically prohibits "cruel and unusual" punishment. It was put in for good reason - most people would be absolutely shocked and disgusted at some of the torture and punishment methods used in England at the time the U.S. Constitution was written. So cutting off people's hands for stealing and other similar laws and punishments would simply not work over here. Lawyers would try those cases quicker than a fly lands on dog ****. So that's the end of that.



And speaking of the amendments, the 2nd Amendment is a good amendment, and needs to be retained. We've already established the fact that whether guns are illegal or not, the bad guys will get their hands on them. With that being said, do you want to live in a society where the bad guys are armed and the good guys can't get a hold of guns in order to defend themselves? Pretty scary situation, isn't it?






_
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Old 10-04-2007, 09:17 AM
 
Location: NY
2,011 posts, read 3,869,220 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bily4 View Post
Easy, now...back away slowly. Nobody is trying to take your guns away from you. US still has a substantially higher Murder rate than England though, does it not? I understand guns are never going away in the US, but please don't pretend that is not a causal factor of the violence in our society.

In a perfect world - everybody would be very careful and responsible caretakers of their guns, saving them only for when the boogeyman crawls through the bedroom window.

In the real world, people get drunk or get in a rage of passion and shoot a loved one in an argument, or shoot themselves or a friend by accident (Hi Dick Cheney), or commit suicide with them. Happens quite a bit. Or decide Columbine was cool or they don't like their boss and go out on a rampage in their school or workplace. Guns are enablers to the violence in our society. Let's accept it and move on.
You are wrong on all counts. England's violent crime rate is way above the US. And PLEASE don't say no one is trying to take away our guns!! The Clinton gun ban, the Kennedy, Schumer, McCarthy gun bans. Confiscation of guns in New Orleans and California and NJ. What the media doesn't want the public to know is the legal use of a gun in this country outstrips illegal use by FAR. Over 2 million times a year on average, a gun is used in self defense to stop a crime. This is FBI numbers not the NRA. The stats you hear from the media are way overblown. They pad the numbers by adding gang slayings and drug deals gone bad to the amount of "children" "killed by guns". They even add in criminals under the age of 21 th these numbers PLUS young criminals killed by police in the commission of their crimes.

Plus the phrase "killed by a gun" is just plain ignorant. A gun can't kill anyone. It had to be used by a human. If that human brakes the law in using that gun he needs to go to jail and STAY THERE! Lets focus on the criminal not an inanimate object.
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Old 10-04-2007, 09:19 AM
 
Location: NY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NooYowkur81 View Post
It's a combination of things. I wouldn't lay the blame on one particular factor.
Well said.
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Old 10-04-2007, 09:25 AM
 
5,762 posts, read 11,607,537 times
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Quote:
Also 99% of people in prison do not believe in God.
Actually, it's just about the opposite. According to various prison surveys, the number of prisoners identifying as atheist or agnostic is extremely low, down around 1%. Atheists aren't driving crime in America.

I assume by violent what you really mean is murderous. Yes, the US is quite a lot more murderous than other developed nations. That's beyond any doubt; the statistics are clear on that, and have been for a long time. It also happens that the murder rate in the US is creeping up a bit over the past couple years after falling dramatically between 1991 and 2001, then holding steady or dropping slightly for several years.

Just as a plain statistical matter, according to the FBI's latest annual Uniform Crime Report, black persons were 47% of homicide victims in the US, and were 51% of homicide arrestees. The national murder rate of the United States is about 5.6 murders per 100,000 people per year. The LA Times did a survey of murder reports going back several years, and found that in some neighborhoods, the murder rate for black males aged 16-24 was as high as 200 per 100,000 - about 36 times the national average. That's an astonishing disparity.

But remember, it didn't used to be that way. The murder rate in lower-income Af-Am neighborhoods didn't start exploding until the early 1970's or so. So, from a sociological perspective, you'd want to look at what changed over time before and after that period.

But as a general matter, the US has a higher 'Gini coefficient' than most developed nations. That means there is a wider gap between the wealthiest segment of Americans (not just the very uppermost wealthiest, but the wealthiest 10-20%) and the poorest than in other places. Countries with higher Gini coefficients tend to be more violent, because the young men from the lowest income decile or quintile find that violent crime is a risk worth taking when it comes to the possible rewards.

Someone from a higher income bracket generally doesn't make that calculation, because more is lost if the gamble fails. People from higher income brackets also have less contact with members of criminal organizations seeking to recruit young members.

Guns are like an accelerant in this environment. In a state like Vermont, with lots of guns and atheism and little crime, guns are mostly inert. They are mostly a nonfactor in crime, because Vermont doesn't have dense urban pockets of poor young men. Places like Philadelphia, though, do have such pockets, and pouring firepower in there amps up the murder rate quite a lot.

However, I don't think this is an argument for national gun control, since it really isn't the burden of a responsible gunowner in Vermont to pin his hopes to some government gun control scheme designed to bring down murder rates in faraway places like Oakland or Detroit.
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Old 10-04-2007, 09:27 AM
 
5,762 posts, read 11,607,537 times
Reputation: 3869
Quote:
You are wrong on all counts. England's violent crime rate is way above the US.
The UK has a lot of drunken street brawls at night, but their murder rate is less than 1/5th the American rate.
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Old 10-04-2007, 09:35 AM
 
Location: Sacramento
14,044 posts, read 27,145,312 times
Reputation: 7373
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Carolina Native View Post
I am retired. Finding facts used to be my job and this is one that stuck with me because I thought it was so interesting. It explains a lot to me. Isn't it sad that with all the criminals running loose that the prisons can't keep up. That statistic may have changed, but I think it is pretty much true and explains the high crime. People do not have to resort to crime. That is a choice. More police won't help, self control and moral living will. Blaming it on society that one does crime is just an excuse. Maturity speaking!

Also, I had a missionary friend tell me that when they went into an area and started spreading the gospel, the first thing they noticed is that the nights got more quiet, because violence decreased. What percentage of our population is in prison? Like I say, I am retired, so I am not going to look that up, but if something would lower crime by that percentage, wouldn't it be worth a try? Have a good day!
It seems to me that blaming violent crime on not believing in God is a bit of a stretch, and not supported through statistical analysis. The prisons are certainly overcrowded, but the vast majority of crimes aren't violent. I would prefer to do a little more research to validate this type of claim before declaring it as a fact.
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Old 10-04-2007, 09:37 AM
 
Location: NY
2,011 posts, read 3,869,220 times
Reputation: 918
Quote:
Originally Posted by tablemtn View Post
The UK has a lot of drunken street brawls at night, but their murder rate is less than 1/5th the American rate.
Old figures. The past 3 years it's been higher. This is according to Scotland Yard and FBI stats. The famed unarmed "Bobbies" are now carrying guns. and all this AFTER the gun ban laws went into effect.
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Old 10-04-2007, 09:44 AM
 
10,545 posts, read 13,552,905 times
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There are way too many factors invoved to point to one. We have problems with families falling apart, kids born to single parents without the resources to cope with them, drugs, overcrowded prisons, problems with the educational system, glorification of violence etc. They are all connected.
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