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Old 10-05-2012, 04:43 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Niagara Falls ON.
10,016 posts, read 12,582,425 times
Reputation: 9030

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I think it is very clear to any student of US history that the present federal government is just not in any way close to what a constitutional government would be. It has been a battle right from the founding between those who wanted to stick to the limited federal power and sovereign states rights against those who desired a monolithic centralized federal power that usurps for it's self every single power it can. Of course I have my own ideas on who the ultimate culprit who undermined constitutional government was but I'll save that for further discussion. My question is two fold, Who and what is responsible for the present unconstitutional state of the Union and more importantly, what, if anything can be done about it to bring the country back to a legal and constitutional balance of powers. Assuming this is possible, what benefits can you see for the country and the people of the United States?
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Old 10-05-2012, 05:07 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
48,564 posts, read 24,133,502 times
Reputation: 21239
Wrong forum.

You want Politics.
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Old 10-05-2012, 05:17 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Niagara Falls ON.
10,016 posts, read 12,582,425 times
Reputation: 9030
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
Wrong forum.

You want Politics.
Definitely not. This is an historical question without a single doubt. Do you think 1% of the people on that forum ever heard of Henry Clay? I doubt it. How about the Hamiltonian vision for the nation vs the Jeffersonian? What about the desire to create a mercantilist system called by Clay the ÀMERICAN SYSTEM`That required great central power and came to pass in fact. What about the different political parties that supported that and the evolution of those parties and their ideas.

Nope, the politcs forum wouldn`t have a clue.
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Old 10-05-2012, 06:31 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
48,564 posts, read 24,133,502 times
Reputation: 21239
You want the politics forum.

You do not phrase your question in any sort of historical way, you frame it as a political conclusion.

So, you want the politics forum.
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Old 10-05-2012, 06:39 PM
 
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
17,531 posts, read 24,704,444 times
Reputation: 9980
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
You want the politics forum.

You do not phrase your question in any sort of historical way, you frame it as a political conclusion.

So, you want the politics forum.
Are you refering to the US or Canada where you live?
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Old 10-05-2012, 06:43 PM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,129 posts, read 31,260,509 times
Reputation: 6920
Whoever voted for or signed into law the Patriot Act.
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Old 10-05-2012, 06:50 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
48,564 posts, read 24,133,502 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boompa View Post
Are you refering to the US or Canada where you live?
What?
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Old 10-05-2012, 07:31 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Niagara Falls ON.
10,016 posts, read 12,582,425 times
Reputation: 9030
It's obviously a complex and important subject. It not only shaped the form and direction of the republic from the revolution to today but it also will determine the future of the USA. The USA does not resemble the vision of the founders politically at all and in fact is almost the opposite of what they intended in the formation of the country. This vision was one of limited, decentralized, constitutional government. Against that vision of the Republic you had the ideas of Alexander Hamilton and his supporters who championed centralized government power driven by political patronage for the benefit of what many politicians of the day called, "The monied aristocracy". This vision was exactly what the revolution was fought to get away from. This anti revolution vision also included the central government's control of a nationalized banking system which they were not long in establishing in "The bank of the United States".

A money supply that is controlled by the government and government subsidies to corporations were the key stones of the Hamiltonian\ Clay American system. The system that was exactly the same as the British Empire's Mercantile system. Again, this was one of the key reasons the colonies fought the revolutionary war to be free from. All that needed to be added to the formula to complete the sell out of the revolution was the quest for empire, a purpose the founding fathers never intended to be the purpose of the new government they had created. That quest was not long in coming.

Why were the lofty goals of freedom and libety sold out? Why during the history of the country has the direction of political evolution always been away from the constitutional ideal and what does that mean for the future? Will the pendulum ever swing back towards a decentralized federal power and sovereign State's rights? Will the federal powers continue to assume more and more unchallenged power and control over the rights of a free people? What do you think?
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Old 10-05-2012, 07:31 PM
 
Location: Warwick, RI
5,481 posts, read 6,309,195 times
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The answer to your questions is easy - we are. The founding fathers knew that government of any type would continually try to grow and infringe upon the rights of the citizens, and they warned us repeatedly to remain vigilant and keep government from becoming exactly what it today. We, the people, have failed badly in this duty and are now paying the price. There is a story that says that as he was leaving Philadelpia's consititutional convention in 1787, Benjamin Franklin was asked by a woman what form of government the delagates had created, a democracy or a republic. His answer was "A republic, madam, if you can keep it." We have been derelict in our duty, and have allowed our government to infringe upon our freedoms a little at a time until now we have no control over what our politicians do, and not only does a large portion of our population not seem to understand this, but actually seems to want to embrace it. The fouding fathers created exactly the type of government that men of their stature deserved, and the government we have today is exactly the government that we citizens today deserve.


Quotes to consider:

"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

"The policy of the American government is to leave their citizens free, neither restraining nor aiding them in their pursuits."

"The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first."

"Most bad government has grown out of too much government."

-Thomas Jefferson

Last edited by treasurekidd; 10-05-2012 at 08:02 PM..
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Old 10-05-2012, 07:32 PM
 
Location: Lower east side of Toronto
10,564 posts, read 12,822,450 times
Reputation: 9400
Money is to blame- big business...when things get in the way of profit- the constitution has to get out of the way.
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