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As to the poll, I am greatly encouraged to see that "Whatever the majority of voters in a true democracy decide that it is at any given time" has still received no votes.
Some of the folks on the right side of this issue tend to give the impression that the definition of marriage is determined by popular vote.
Pot calling kettle black as far as rights to advocate are concerned. The difference is that he is talking about laws that were in effect until being repealed or struck down by the SCOTUS nearly or over two hundred years later. Prior to 1962, sodomy was a felony in every state, punished by a lengthy term of imprisonment and/or hard labor.
People are subject to the law. For my part as a Catholic, I can, at a minimum, lobby against changes in the law that I oppose on theological grounds. And I can lobby for changes in the law to make them more in accordance with Church teaching. Non-Catholics are free to do the same. The fact that disagreement exists does not mean that the issue should not be pursued.
So Canada created their own definition of what they consider marriage, what is your point?
Why do you want to force others of different religions or of non religion to follow laws you want to be in accordance with your Church teachings? Are christians so insecure in their beliefs that they need to make everyone follow their bible tenets? Put any religion in the position of controlling the entire populace and they become a dictating power that begins to feel it is infallible. That opens up abuse for anyone believing otherwise. I have not religion, do not believe in a god and got married in a courthouse by a majistrate of the court. God was not mentioned, nor was my marriage declared a phony one. It is a real enough marriage that if we should ever encounter a reason for divorce, we have to file for one, hire attorneys and pay for it the same as any straight married couple. Why cannot christians be satisfied with their belief in their spouse, their love for each other and their marriage in the eyes of what every god they believe in and let every one else enjoy the benifits of legal protections for their relationships. Why do I or my partner of 33 years have to go though every legal loop hole we can find or pay for and still get treated as second class by the majority and told that we are evil or phony or should not be allowed to raise children or call our unions marriage and recieve the legal protections. But you straight people are allowed to get married and divorced as many times as you like and still get those 1049 +- federally backed rights and benifits. We cannot ever get them once. We are being punished by the majority for just being us and are sick and tired of it. We are US citizens too, we cut, we bleed the same red blood, not some green slime like you seem to think. We came out of you straight people, most of us had straight parents, but we are treated as second class by you, dismissed as if we were garbage at the side of the curb.
Why do you want to force others of different religions or of non religion to follow laws you want to be in accordance with your Church teachings? Are christians so insecure in their beliefs that they need to make everyone follow their bible tenets? Put any religion in the position of controlling the entire populace and they become a dictating power that begins to feel it is infallible. That opens up abuse for anyone believing otherwise. I have not religion, do not believe in a god and got married in a courthouse by a majistrate of the court. God was not mentioned, nor was my marriage declared a phony one. It is a real enough marriage that if we should ever encounter a reason for divorce, we have to file for one, hire attorneys and pay for it the same as any straight married couple. Why cannot christians be satisfied with their belief in their spouse, their love for each other and their marriage in the eyes of what every god they believe in and let every one else enjoy the benifits of legal protections for their relationships. Why do I or my partner of 33 years have to go though every legal loop hole we can find or pay for and still get treated as second class by the majority and told that we are evil or phony or should not be allowed to raise children or call our unions marriage and recieve the legal protections. But you straight people are allowed to get married and divorced as many times as you like and still get those 1049 +- federally backed rights and benifits. We cannot ever get them once. We are being punished by the majority for just being us and are sick and tired of it. We are US citizens too, we cut, we bleed the same red blood, not some green slime like you seem to think. We came out of you straight people, most of us had straight parents, but we are treated as second class by you, dismissed as if we were garbage at the side of the curb.
Its my lucky day, two people want to write long diatribes against me projecting their false narrative when they cannot answer my questions or debate the subject matter. All I referred to was that sodomy was previously illegal in the U.S. and that I as a Catholic have the right to lobby just as anyone else does in America. No reason to get upset about anything.
I'll never attempt to deny you of your free will, right to life, or discriminate against you otherwise. If I do I'll pray for forgiveness and work to reconcile myself. But since YOU brought up my faith as it relates to this subject I'll be glad to share my Church's official teachings with you and anyone else who is interested:
Quote:
Full Text of Catholic Catechism Regarding Homosexuality - 1997
#2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.” They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.
#2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
#2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.
Its my lucky day, two people want to write long diatribes against me projecting their false narrative when they cannot answer my questions or debate the subject matter. All I referred to was that sodomy was previously illegal in the U.S. and that I as a Catholic have the right to lobby just as anyone else does in America. No reason to get upset about anything.
I'll never attempt to deny you of your free will, right to life, or discriminate against you otherwise. If I do I'll pray for forgiveness and work to reconcile myself. But since YOU brought up my faith as it relates to this subject I'll be glad to share my Church's official teachings with you and anyone else who is interested:
AGAIN, I do not believe in your god or your bible. I do not need your church teachings shoved down my throat, keep it to yourself, your church and your life, but keep it out of laws pertaining to those of us not desiring of it. Being a good person, a productive citizen, a tax payer and a law abiding person is not relative to ones belief in a god or a religion. Morals are taught, so are biases.
AGAIN, I do not believe in your god or your bible. I do not need your church teachings shoved down my throat,
I am not doing that nor have I ever done that, you questioned my faith and the official teachings of my Church so it is my duty to inform you properly. If I am doing something that is incorrect I would hope that you'd be kind enough to correct me, it is the friendly thing to do
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDragonslayer
keep it to yourself, your church and your life, but keep it out of laws pertaining to those of us not desiring of it. Being a good person, a productive citizen, a tax payer and a law abiding person is not relative to ones belief in a god or a religion. Morals are taught, so are biases.
Well I do not desire that the laws regarding marriage be changed so to reflect the desires of "gay marriage" advocates, hence my previous statements about lobbying which oh BTW wouldn't be necessary if the "gay marriage" advocates had not lobbied against them in the first place. It goes both ways you know, just like biases.
If there were truly no distinction between marriage and "gay marriage" then would there be any need for the "gay" modifier?
As to the poll, I am greatly encouraged to see that "Whatever the majority of voters in a true democracy decide that it is at any given time" has still received no votes.
Some of the folks on the right side of this issue tend to give the impression that the definition of marriage is determined by popular vote.
The correct answer is the last one --- Whatever the law decrees it is at any given time.
For secular purposes, whether you and others accept people as 'married' is only relevant to the extent you can change or prevent change in an existing definition.
For religious purposes, your acceptance of people as 'married' is completely irrelevant.
I am not doing that nor have I ever done that, you questioned my faith and the official teachings of my Church so it is my duty to inform you properly. If I am doing something that is incorrect I would hope that you'd be kind enough to correct me, it is the friendly thing to do
Well I do not desire that the laws regarding marriage be changed so to reflect the desires of "gay marriage" advocates, hence my previous statements about lobbying which oh BTW wouldn't be necessary if the "gay marriage" advocates had not lobbied against them in the first place. It goes both ways you know, just like biases.
If there were truly no distinction between marriage and "gay marriage" then would there be any need for the "gay" modifier?
It's only different now because one is not allowed. Once gay marriage becomes legalized and recognized people won't say that someone got gay married or had a gay marriage, people will just be married. Your "gotcha" distinction is irrelevant and non-applicable
I am not doing that nor have I ever done that, you questioned my faith and the official teachings of my Church so it is my duty to inform you properly. If I am doing something that is incorrect I would hope that you'd be kind enough to correct me, it is the friendly thing to do
Well I do not desire that the laws regarding marriage be changed so to reflect the desires of "gay marriage" advocates, hence my previous statements about lobbying which oh BTW wouldn't be necessary if the "gay marriage" advocates had not lobbied against them in the first place. It goes both ways you know, just like biases.
If there were truly no distinction between marriage and "gay marriage" then would there be any need for the "gay" modifier?
In states where it is legal, there is no such thing as a "gay" marriage. Everyone gets the same license.
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