For those who think the working class isn't paying enough tax: Personal finance reality check (solution, insurance)

[malamute]

47% are paying no taxes, not contributing.

Yes, it's very difficult being part of the fewer and fewer who are having to pay for all this wild spending.

[Bideshi]

The problem isn't the tax rate on the working class, it's the amount of tax revenue that goes to people that don't work.

[malamute]

Originally Posted by freemkt

A childless single working full time at minimum wage pays over $500 a year in federal income tax and does not get EITC.

And if that single opts instead to start giving birth, no more full time working needed and the EITC check will be wonderful.

Our welfare recipient class isn't growing so fast because there's any downside.

[pollyrobin]

Originally Posted by A Common Anomaly

Reagan exempted many lower income people from taxes, and the Bush tax cuts exempted more. However, when we talk about raising taxes to fix the debt, primarily caused by Republican policies, right wingtards want the poor and middle class to pay the bill.

And, that was Reagan's first mistake, of many. Bush, let me count the ways.
But, are you telling me the poor and middle class didn't vote for Reagan or Bush Jr?
Of course they did. Both were 8 year term presidents.

The American people can't just sit by with no concern about our debt,
who we give money to, or who we borrow from to pay for things. This past
election is a perfect example. They voted on gay rights, abortion, and everything
but the debt. They give Big Bird more consideration than they did the Public Debt

You don't want to pay for it, get off your ass and vote accordingly against
present government policies.
That would be the Libertarian Party

Otherwise, you just want a free ride, at someone else's expense.

[jwiley]

I find it funny how many people I see posting that they held a minimum wage job for years, and so deserve benefits, because that job sucked. Here is a simple idea, why not find a better paying job?

[charolastra00]

Half of Americans are below average. That's just statistics - half of any population will be lower than average. The bottom 10% will likely never have the capacity to work enough to support themselves. This population includes people with developmental disabilities. The next 20 or 30% are able to support themselves, but not well. They might not have the cognitive ability to plan well for their future. The middle 40 - 60% of Americans have the ability to do well, but have to work a lot harder at it than someone who is firmly "above average".

And that's just speaking to cognitive ability - when you throw in illness, both physical and mental, disabilities, accidents, or simple personality flaws (like laziness), you start knocking people out of the capitalist count.

Think about the people you went to high school with, and, thanks to Facebook, where they are now. I was in gifted - the creme of the crop (and also almost exclusively children of middle and upper income parents). Most of the people who were in gifted and AP/IB courses with me are doing OK now. We might not all have the best jobs because we graduated from college in 2010, but we all went to decent colleges with scholarships and are mostly employed in industries where we will have upward mobility. The advanced students are doing well as well, but they tend to have more student loan debt to contend with and went to a little bit more mediocre schools. The 40-60% range is where it starts to really vary. Some kids who were mechanically inclined went into trades - they did OK. Some kids who were not particularly skilled at anything and were not college-bounded ended up in the military. A lot of others didn't go to college, or dropped out of college, didn't learn a trade, and are struggling. Those firmly at below average are really struggling.

I didn't know every single person in my school and haven't kept up with all of them, but it's certainly a general trend. Your intelligence has a strong impact on your ability to accumulate wealth - both in terms of earnings and in terms of saving and planning for the future.

And for the record, this working class/pink collar girl paid taxes even through a cancer diagnosis and treatment. I did not get back anywhere near the amount that I put in. The only time I have ever received more money than I paid in back in taxes was the year that I graduated from college - I worked a full time job for 4 months and a part time job (in college) for 6 months and was unemployed/job hunting the rest of the time.

[GregW]

I am always amused by the folks that claim, "I stole mine fair and square and I don't wnt to share." I went ot public schools and used college loans and a lot of luck but that sdon't count. I am a sucess on my own.

I am annoyed by the upper crust annuity dudes that started on third and claim a home run.

[Ohiogirl81]

Originally Posted by Bostonian123

There is no absolutely no reason why you should be poor unless you have a disability or medical problem that prevents you from working better paying jobs.

Where are those better paying jobs for unskilled workers, pray tell? And who's going to take your $1.29 for your cup of coffee at the convenience store every morning? Maybe we should pay them more?

If you are perfectly healthy and you are poor then 1) you never bothered to get a useful college degree

Not everyone is college material.

or 2) you had too many kids at a young age

Not all of the working poor have children, let alone "too many".

or 3) you spent all your money on expensive house, car, vactions, ipads instead of saving it.

Working poor don't have money for these things.

Next ...

Originally Posted by pollyrobin

They voted on gay rights, abortion, and everything
but the debt. They give Big Bird more consideration than they did the Public Debt

The people running for office are the ones who talk about everything but the debt; don't blame the voters for that one. The folks running for office are more interested in sound bytes and stirring up the fringes of their supporters than they are in actually answering questions about pressing issues.

[gwynedd1]

Originally Posted by freemkt

From the personal finance forum:

Remember marginal utility theory. The closer you are to cost of living, the more valuable your last dollar is. You can't retire when your last dollar is spent on an EITHER/OR choice between entertainment choices or retirement funding. The one glaring thing these posters never tell you is that they aren't maxing their ROTH with their rent money; they got that much extra after rent and life. It is beyond disingenuous to spout that you max contribute to these def. contribution vehicles without admitting your income is high to begin with. They even disclaim "barring any change", which is to mean they'll fund retirement as long as their disposable income allows. The money for retirement goes out the window along with the splurge entertainment money when things get tight. To suggest going through 40 years of life without facing that scenario in America is laughable, and naive.

//www.city-data.com/forum/perso...you-can-2.html


Still think burger flippers aren't paying enough taxes?

Correct and what is the worth of a burger flipper? That depends on what you are measuring. The total value of water is precious, but it gets little respect because its marginal utility is low. This is what junk economics confuses. A macro economic perspective looks at total output to maximize production. A microeconomic perspective values labor marginally. Mixing those concepts in tax policy is the height of abject stupidity and ignorance. Labor has expenses. Why does capital write off its expenses? Labor cannot have a basic food and housing deduction? That is the point of the personal deduction.

So what is the total value of labor? Nothing is done without it. Is labor going to have the same buying power in its negotiations for the share of the surplus if unemployment is 20% vs 5%? What is the value of the 80% of the labor force? Does their productive power diminish? No, only their marginal utility diminishes. So their ability to negotiate for the productive output diminishes which naturally means they have less available to be taxed. Someone else has already collected more of their output. Guess who that is?

[KUchief25]

Hey freemkt I thought you worked in a factory for years making min wage?? At least that was your story before. Stop making stuff up.