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Find all you want. Jews were in Palestine long before Islam, that was my point.
To claim the Arabs have claim on Israel is a fallacy at best.
Judaism is older than Islam...and being Jewish has the distinction of being an ethnic group AND a religion. So you're trying to be deceptive in your argument about Jews vs Islam.
Secondly, Jews and Arabs are pretty much the same people genetically, so how do you know who was in Palestine before whom? The Bible? Hell, even the Bible states that there were several tribes on the land when the Jews got there. Those tribes were obviously non Jewish Semites. Archaeological digs have proven that Jews shared that land with non-Jews...probably even after Israel was founded (and i'm not talking about 1948 Israel, but ancient Israel).
Mohammed was an illiterate camel driver who was taught The Bible by an outcast priest, whom he subsequently murdered by throwing down a well, hence the stoning of the devil dance. Mohammed was a false prophet who said that he would follow only one god, like Christians and Jews, so he selected one of the 365 gods of his land - Allah the moon-god. The Koran borrows strongly from the Old Testament but nothing from the New Testament. You will sometimes hear Muslims say that they are descended from Ishmael, which might be true, but they then claim to be the chosen of God, which simply isn't true. Jesus Christ was rejected by the high ranking Jewish priests who felt their position threatened. The Jews, time and time again, followed the pagan gods of the people in the land, like Baal and Molech. Mohammed was guided by an 'angel of light', AKA Satan, who loves the Koran because it specifically states that 'Jesus is NOT the Son of God', which is exactly the idea he wants most to promote.
Again, Mohammed is no worse than Moses or Joshua. And being illiterate in the Middle East wasn't an anomaly in that era.
Explain this:
Quote:
"Next we turned and went up along the road toward Bashan, and Og king of Bashan with his whole army marched out to meet us in battle at Edrei." Moses speaks: "The LORD said to me, "Do not be afraid of him, for I have handed him over to you with his whole army and his land. Do to him what you did to Sihon king of the Amorites, who reigned in Heshbon ... So the LORD our God also gave into our hands Og king of Bashan and all his army. We struck them down, leaving no survivors." ... "At that time we took all his cities, there was not one of the sixty cities that we did not take from them—the whole region of Argob, Og's kingdom in Bashan ... destroying every city, men, women and children ... But all the livestock and the plunder from their cities we carried off for ourselves."
Murder women and children, but save the livestock?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2bpurrfect
only in your own head. you wouldn't convince us who know our own God and our own THOUSANDS OF YEARS OLD Bible written by HUNDREDS OF EYEWITNESSES AND PARTICIPANTS IN THE ACTUAL WORK OF GOD. but a person would have to really believe in our real God before they would realize it's the real deal..... and God has His own reasons, plans, and strategies far above your tiny little miniscule pin head. lol. That is, compared to Him. of course,
Grass-hoppa.
LMAO...hundreds of eyewitnesses? Really? And where are their accounts recorded...these eyewitnesses? Okay, how about this from Joshua 10:13:
Quote:
And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
This is something that the WHOLE WORLD would have seen and recorded. Give me another account OUTSIDE of the Bible of "hundreds of eyewitnesses and participants in the actual work of God" that saw such a thing happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperionGap
No you can't.
Oh no?
I can't prove that there were men in the Bible that were far worse than anything recorded about Mohammed?
How about this guy...David?:
Quote:
And David and his men went up, and invaded the Geshurites, and the Gezrites, and the Amalekites: for those nations were of old the inhabitants of the land, as thou goest to Shur, even unto the land of Egypt. And David smote the land, and left neither man nor woman alive, and took away the sheep, and the oxen, and the asses, and the camels, and the apparel, and returned, and came to Achish. And Achish said, Whither have ye made a road to day? And David said, Against the south of Judah, and against the south of the Jerahmeelites, and against the south of the Kenites. And David saved neither man nor woman alive, to bring tidings to Gath, saying, Lest they should tell on us, saying, So did David, and so will be his manner all the while he dwelleth in the country of the Philistines.
Or how about this one? Main perpetrator not named:
Quote:
And the congregation sent thither twelve thousand men of the valiantest, and commanded them, saying, Go and smite the inhabitants of Jabeshgilead with the edge of the sword, with the women and the children. 11 And this is the thing that ye shall do, Ye shall utterly destroy every male, and every woman that hath lain by man. hath lain...: Heb. knoweth the lying with man 12 And they found among the inhabitants of Jabeshgilead four hundred young virgins, that had known no man by lying with any male: and they brought them unto the camp to Shiloh, which is in the land of Canaan.
Yeah...i can. Easily.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nafster
Seriously. LOL.
Maybe similar but far worse? Sounds like someone with an agenda!
My agenda is telling the truth. And the truth is that Mohammed as a depraved murderer (according to his critics) has nothing on his Biblical counterparts.
And there are far more Bible verses outlining atrocities committed than the ones i posted.
Us folks? When did I ever say the bible is the historical truth.
In one thread you said you can't argue with "believers" and in this one you're trying to use it as historical proof. You can't do both buddy.
Oh yes i can...most definitely.
If you (not you personally, but "you" in the generic sense) use the Koran to denigrate Mohammed, i can use the Bible to denigrate Biblical leaders/prophets etc.
You might have one point in that at least Mohammed was a real person that actually existed....and i guess you're admitting that much in a roundabout way.
But your comment that i couldn't use the Bible to show that early Jewish figures were worse than Mohammed was a dare on your part...a bad dare. You should've known better. You obviously don't know your own good book.
I said you couldn't prove it. You have offered no historical proof that Jews have gone on a mass spree of terrorism. Let me know when you do, I'm all ears. I'm sure you can find peer reviewed journals that support your claim.
I said you couldn't prove it. You have offered no historical proof that Jews have gone on a mass spree of terrorism. Let me know when you do, I'm all ears. I'm sure you can find peer reviewed journals that support your claim.
You're already all ears. You know it, and so do i.
I proved it using their own book. THEY believe it happened. If you don't, that's your business. That just means that you don't believe the Bible.
[quote=desertdetroiter;35401325]Again, Mohammed is no worse than Moses or Joshua. And being illiterate in the Middle East wasn't an anomaly in that era.
It is true that the Jews were commanded to do certain things that were not nice - for example they were commanded by God to exterminate all of the inhabitants of Canaan, which they did not do, and ultimately led them to inter-marry and start to follow the foreign idols.
The Jews had certain laws, for example they could stone you to death for adultery or blasphemy, they used it as an excuse to crucify their own Messiah, and would have stoned a woman caught in adultery, if a certain Man had not intervened. What was His name? The Muslims still retain the archaic laws of the Old Testament era, but can you name any Jews or Christians that do the same in this day and age?
Again, Mohammed is no worse than Moses or Joshua. And being illiterate in the Middle East wasn't an anomaly in that era.
It is true that the Jews were commanded to do certain things that were not nice - for example they were commanded by God to exterminate all of the inhabitants of Canaan, which they did not do, and ultimately led them to inter-marry and start to follow the foreign idols.
The Jews had certain laws, for example they could stone you to death for adultery or blasphemy, they used it as an excuse to crucify their own Messiah, and would have stoned a woman caught in adultery, if a certain Man had not intervened. What was His name? The Muslims still retain the archaic laws of the Old Testament era, but can you name any Jews or Christians that do the same in this day and age?
The Jews of the Bible weren't commanded to do anything...they did those things (if the Bible is even halfway accurate) because they WANTED to...not because God told them to do it. I mean, what God?
And please don't say that Jesus was their Messiah. That's pretty insulting. If they say that he wasn't, then he wasn't.
As for archaic laws of the Old Testament Era, well ANYONE following any biblical laws are following archaic laws by definition.
I mean, how could they NOT be? The book was written more than a few millennia ago...
The Ten Commandments are archaic. Saying that homosexuality is an abomination is archaic. Keeping the Sabbath is archaic. Celebrating Easter and passover is archaic.
Heck, even prayer is archaic. So any Biblical laws being observed is an observation of archaic laws.
So yeah...naming Jews and Christians that still follow or retain archaic laws of the Old Testament (New one too) is actually pretty easy.
Hell, if the Bible is the word of God, why are people NOT observing those laws? Was there some other book that came out saying that Jews and Christians have gotten a reprieve from following Biblical law?
No. Which tells me all i need to know.
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