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Old 11-26-2012, 01:18 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,621 posts, read 45,245,096 times
Reputation: 13873

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ellemint View Post
I for one have respect for the working poor, of which there are millions.
Are you willing to put your money where your mouth is? Pay a MUCH higher tax rate to support all of the social welfare programs the working poor benefit from. It's a challenge to walk the walk... DO IT!!!
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Old 11-26-2012, 01:20 PM
 
1,724 posts, read 1,475,985 times
Reputation: 780
The "dependent" class consist mainly of the elderly, disabled, and children. Keep in mind that the elderly often worked before they retired and paid into the system, but according to Republicans they are leeches on society, as well as children and disabled people.

Thankfully, we live in a society where many people value social insurance to catch people who cannot produce much economic value from slipping through the cracks.

Certainly some low-skilled jobs provide more economic value than jobs that pay millions. There are countless examples of rich people running good businesses into the ground and hedge fund managers losing money, but they make big bucks, despite the fact that they economically contribute to society in a negative manner.
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Old 11-26-2012, 01:21 PM
 
17,410 posts, read 12,032,799 times
Reputation: 16201
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
A false dichotomy has been erected by people declaring themselves "the producer class" vs. "the dependent class."


But, where a single mother of two may work 40 hours+ as a waitress at a local diner, or a father works as a landscaper all day, they still may not be able to provide for their family. (Could be due to declining wages and benefits in these fields, among many other factors). Even IF their respective families have to receive Medicaid or school lunches for the kids.... are the waitress and landscaper REALLY "non producers?"

Arguably, the waitress and landscaper produce and work harder than a financier or investor.



The Capitalist economy requires an underclass of unskilled, low wage workers. Why demonize those who fulfill important sectors and functions in our economy. Just because something does not pay well, doesn't mean it's non-essential. And, just because something pays well doesn't mean its a valuable or even necessary part of the economy.
Bull. Did that waitress go to college for years to learn her skill? Does that landscaper work until midnight, then get up at 4 again, 7 days a week? Does the waitress continue her education constantly, to become a better waitress?

Arguably, the waitress and landscaper doing a job that anyone can do.

Value is whatever someone is willing to pay for something.
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Old 11-26-2012, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,733,892 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
Where in the hell do you guys get this stuff from?

When I gave my landscaper 200 bucks, what do you suppose he did with that money? Stick it under his mattress?

And how does it not benefit you if your neighbor keeps a tidy yard?

Must be a full moon out, and it ain't even dark yet.
In 10 months time you could have bought yourself a nice zero-turn mower with that money.
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Old 11-26-2012, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,792 posts, read 14,000,385 times
Reputation: 5661
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Bottom falls out of the economy and that waitress and landscaper are sitting at home.
They are dependent on other people to provide them jobs.
The producers are the owners who expanded and hired them.

All those bakers at Hostess produced something. But it was for someone else. That someone else is liquidating so those bakers have no jobs now.

Then you have those bakers that have the food trucks that go from place to place selling their goods. They are producers.

If you are dependent on someone else for your living you are not the producer; the owner is.
Without increased demand your "producer" is not expanding. If demand falls, he doesn't have a living. The "producer" is dependent upon the demand of others. That's what an economy is.
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Old 11-26-2012, 01:23 PM
 
10,553 posts, read 9,682,924 times
Reputation: 4784
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Are you willing to put your money where your mouth is? Pay a MUCH higher tax rate to support all of the social welfare programs the working poor benefit from. It's a challenge to walk the walk... DO IT!!!
Why should taxpayers have to support the working poor? They should be paid a living wage so that they don't have to rely on government assistance. Walmart made $15 billion in profits last year, they could have lopped a few billion off of that and paid their workers living wages.
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Old 11-26-2012, 01:24 PM
 
17,410 posts, read 12,032,799 times
Reputation: 16201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinawina View Post
I think what is weirdest about the "makers and takers" thing is that a person's whole worth is being decided on how much in federal taxes they pay. Not taxes period mind you. Not state, local, property or even sales.... JUST federal taxes. If you work 40+ hours a week it doesn't matter either. You can only be worthy if you pay federal taxes. It's just such a bizarre line of reasoning to me.
What's bizarre is thinking that only the poor pay "other" taxes. When people trot out the "but we have to include ALL taxes", they ignore those taxes that the "rich" also pay. Everyone pays sales, property, local tax, etc. But the "rich" pay federal taxes on top of that.
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Old 11-26-2012, 01:24 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,621 posts, read 45,245,096 times
Reputation: 13873
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Bottom falls out of the economy and that waitress and landscaper are sitting at home.
They are dependent on other people to provide them jobs.
The producers are the owners who expanded and hired them.

All those bakers at Hostess produced something. But it was for someone else. That someone else is liquidating so those bakers have no jobs now.


If you are dependent on someone else for your living you are not the producer; the owner is.
Exactly. Why do so few understand that?
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Old 11-26-2012, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,733,892 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
Without increased demand your "producer" is not expanding. If demand falls, he doesn't have a living. The "producer" is dependent upon the demand of others. That's what an economy is.
Well sure, but is the waitress really a producer ?
The restaurant owner can just do it himself if the demand drops below needing extra help.

The guy that repaved my driveway got rid of his crew because there was not enough work to pay them.
He was going to do it himself. Who is the producer there ? The owner, not the workers.
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Old 11-26-2012, 01:25 PM
 
10,553 posts, read 9,682,924 times
Reputation: 4784
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Are you willing to put your money where your mouth is? Pay a MUCH higher tax rate to support all of the social welfare programs the working poor benefit from. It's a challenge to walk the walk... DO IT!!!
How do you know I'm not a member of the working poor?
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