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Old 10-15-2007, 12:58 PM
 
Location: NY
2,011 posts, read 3,879,299 times
Reputation: 918

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manigault View Post
NYC for many years allowed ccw for folks moving large amounts of cash, and the like. They might need to do so. Other folks, probably not.
So by that logic, it's OK to carry and use a gun to protect money but not my or my loved ones lives? Kinda screwed up thinking, no?
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Old 10-15-2007, 01:27 PM
 
8,425 posts, read 12,187,726 times
Reputation: 4882
Just because they carved out an exception for carriers of large amounts of case does not mean it is reasonable ar that the exception should be applied to everyone. In areas with no ccw is someone more likely to use a gun to rob someone carrying a large amount of cash or to rob you and your family in your home or on the street?

More to the point, do you want to raise the ante to a gun battle around your family or just give up the cash? Or, do you want your family to be shot by a mis-aimed bullet fired by someone who thought he was protecting his car?

By the way, taggants do not make explosives unstable and the second amendment does not apply to possession of explosives. The bill of rights also applies to the states through the 14th amendment.
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Old 10-15-2007, 01:44 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,266,002 times
Reputation: 4937
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manigault View Post
More to the point, do you want to raise the ante to a gun battle around your family or just give up the cash? Or, do you want your family to be shot by a mis-aimed bullet fired by someone who thought he was protecting his car?
Yes - to the point

As someone who has PERSONALLY experienced protecting my family with a firearm (and the "bad guy" died) I advocate, if one is comfortable with it, the carrying of, and access to, a firearm.
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Old 10-15-2007, 03:19 PM
 
Location: Arizona, The American Southwest
54,498 posts, read 33,869,039 times
Reputation: 91679
The problem is not guns or decent law-abiding citizens, the problem is voilent criminals. They're been around since the beginning of time, long before guns were invented, and if you took every gun in the world and melted them down, you're not going to eliminate voilence. When a community college district has to consider allowing professors to carry handguns on them (as mentioned by one of the posters) then you know we have a problem in society with voilent individuals, not guns.

Evlvo - There's nothing wrong with training individuals on the proper and safe use of firearms, in fact it is required in all states that give CCWs. But the problem is, that doesn't address the real problem, which again is voilent criminals. When was the last time you saw somebody with a serious criminal history apply for a CCW permit and take classes? The NICS is good to have, but we all know that the majority of criminals don't get their guns the same way you and I do by walking into a sporting goods store. There is a big black market for guns out there, which definitely needs to be addressed. When you have the majority of crime committed by individuals who have a criminal background, yet they were still able to have guns, you know the problem is not with legitimate dealers, law-abiding citizens, or gun manufacturers.

We have many laws out there that are supposed to "protect" the public from criminals, but if they're not enforced, then that'll only force clueless law-makers to create more laws that don't work, and they'll eventually end up taking guns away from all law-abiding citizens. We don't need laws, we have plenty of them, we need enforcements of current laws. There's only one way to protect us from criminals - Don't Take Out Guns Away From Us!, and don't create laws that cannot be enforced.

I am one of those people that just wants guns to shoot paper targets on the weekend at a local shooting range, it's a hobby that I enjoy, and I wouldn't even think of using any of my guns harm anybody.
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Old 10-15-2007, 09:06 PM
 
Location: NY
2,011 posts, read 3,879,299 times
Reputation: 918
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manigault View Post
Just because they carved out an exception for carriers of large amounts of case does not mean it is reasonable ar that the exception should be applied to everyone. In areas with no ccw is someone more likely to use a gun to rob someone carrying a large amount of cash or to rob you and your family in your home or on the street?

More to the point, do you want to raise the ante to a gun battle around your family or just give up the cash? Or, do you want your family to be shot by a mis-aimed bullet fired by someone who thought he was protecting his car?

By the way, taggants do not make explosives unstable and the second amendment does not apply to possession of explosives. The bill of rights also applies to the states through the 14th amendment.
I'm not talking about just a robbery. Many times money is given over and the perp continues the assault and either beats or kills his victim. That's what I'm talking about. Yes, I'd hand over money but if the perp didn't walk away then I'd have to defend myself and/or my family.

Taggants absolutely DO make gunpowder unstable, that's why it was dropped. The makers of gunpowder appeared before congress and testified to the affect.

The 14th Ammendment refers to states but does not give them any rights.It requires the states to provide equal protection under the law to all persons within their jurisdictions.
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Old 10-15-2007, 09:09 PM
 
Location: NY
2,011 posts, read 3,879,299 times
Reputation: 918
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
As one of thie resident liberals I would like to say that gun control is absolutely necessary.

If you cannot control the gun you are using you are a danger to yourself and anyone around you. The essence of gun control is simply having the judgment to select a legitimate target and the skill to hit it with the first shot.

I believe that a well-armed and trained (shooting lessons and shooting sports should be taught in high school) society is a safer society even counting the accidents and domestic violence casualties associated with owning firearms. For instance random robberies, car jacking and home break in are greatly reduced in places where the criminals have a reasonable expectation that they might get shot and killed for their criminality. A judge may be lenient but a .45 cal bullet is not and the armed homeowner or mugging or rape victim is not likely to have much sympathy for his assailant.

We have been taught that killing another human is a grave sin and must be surrounded with much ritual and allowable only by government execution. Experiencing a war will teach you otherwise and let you realize that anyone threatening your life has surrendered his or her right to remain alive. The fundamental and brutal truth of defending yourself and anyone you are responsible for.
This is why I really don't like the term "gun control" even though I do use it. The real term is "Victim Disarmament".
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Old 10-15-2007, 10:05 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,144 posts, read 42,138,196 times
Reputation: 3861
I do believe in gun control-------being able to hit my target as well with the first shot!

And; I tend towards being (barely) a 'Liberal' also
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Old 10-15-2007, 10:54 PM
 
Location: Coming soon to a town near YOU!
989 posts, read 2,762,327 times
Reputation: 1526
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnum Mike View Post
Evlvo - There's nothing wrong with training individuals on the proper and safe use of firearms, in fact it is required in all states that give CCWs.
Not all states. In Washington State you just need to sign up and pass a background check.

California required quite a bit of training (and re-training)... so much so that I didn't think it was worth the hassle and didn't apply.
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Old 10-16-2007, 04:40 AM
 
20,341 posts, read 19,930,346 times
Reputation: 13459
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishmonger View Post
but limit people to only buying 1-2 clips of handgun ammo a year. .
You would end up with nothing but a lot of inexperienced shooters out there. Who wants that?

I want someone who's practiced and familiar with their firearm.

Just look at all of the truly inexperienced, unknowlegable drivers sharing the roads these days.
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Old 10-16-2007, 07:15 AM
 
Location: NY
2,011 posts, read 3,879,299 times
Reputation: 918
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evlevo View Post
Not all states. In Washington State you just need to sign up and pass a background check.

California required quite a bit of training (and re-training)... so much so that I didn't think it was worth the hassle and didn't apply.
California is a MAY issue state. This means it's up to usually a local police chief or county official to decide who gets a permit. Given the anti-gun atmosphere in CA I doubt many permits are allocated.NY is the same and it's almost impossible to get a full carry permit. Target and premises permits are not too hard to get. California has laws that force you to keep your gun locked up or disabled in some way at all times even in your own home. Not much use in case of a home invasion which is happening more and more.
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