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After this last election I think it will happen sooner than most people realize. I don't think it is a good idea, but too many people want "free stuff" with no regard how to pay for it. Just "give it to me"....and they will vote for the people that will give it to them.
Have you looked into how much we waste here compared to others with a NHS? We actually pay and waste more of our own money in our system. We still give free care to people without money and we still pay for it. The difference is that we don't use our own money wisely. We don't all pool it into one system and we don't allow regulation on how much we pay for drugs. I don't understand your logic. Why wouldn't you want to cut waste and pay less for more? Our system is a hodge podge of ideas and it's a waste of money. We need to fix it and take ideas from others and come out with what's best for everyone. That way we will save money not pay more.
Last edited by PoppySead; 12-16-2012 at 07:06 PM..
Should America give in to a National Healthcare system like Germany, Sweden, Thailand, England, or Japan?
Do you think it's time to take profit out of our healthcare system?
We are unique in the profit we allow others to make off people through our healthcare needs.
I thought this was supposed to be a "Great Debate?"
Where are the facts? Five pages of crap.
You are not unique....those States with national health care may not necessary operate on a for-profit basis, but those States that have single payer plans do.
I'll be the very first person to bring something factual to this thread for debate....
"In the past 20 years, our overriding philosophy has been that the health system cannot spend more than its income." -- Franz Knieps German Minister of Health (2009)
you would have to say either most of the population or a greater percentage. even my relatives stories tells me that not all are happy with the NHS in england.
Some aren't happy with it but the majority wouldn't give it up for ours. Maybe trade with another country but not America's. They've been asked and that answer was a resounding no way.
I thought this was supposed to be a "Great Debate?"
Where are the facts? Five pages of crap.
You are not unique....those States with national health care may not necessary operate on a for-profit basis, but those States that have single payer plans do.
I'll be the very first person to bring something factual to this thread for debate....
"In the past 20 years, our overriding philosophy has been that the health system cannot spend more than its income." -- Franz Knieps German Minister of Health (2009)
Next....
Mircea
The whole piece around that message:
Health International: Over the past decade or so, Germany has been fairly successful in containing its health care costs, especially in comparison with some other countries. What are the primary mechanisms the country has used?
"Franz Knieps: There was no single lever we used for cost containment. Instead, we implemented a large number of minor measures to stabilize the health system’s income and expenditures. In the past 20 years, our over- riding philosophy has been that the health system cannot spend more than its income.
The minor measures were implemented at every level of the health system. For example, each year we establish an overall budget for the system at the national level to serve as a guide for
all participants in the system. Virtual budgets are also set up at the regional levels; these ensure that all participants in the system—including the health insurance funds and providers— know from the beginning of the year onward how much money can be spent.
In addition, we carefully control all types of spending. We contract with office- based doctors for their services, we use DRGs (diagnosis-related groups) to reimburse
for hospital care, and we have specific regula- tions for drug expenditures. We have also introduced incentives that encourage every- one to avoid unnecessary expenditures."
I've read the whole interview with Franz Knieps.
I assumed most people were privy to the facts of our healthcare system and others. I can throw a lot of facts from these countries, most which have been covered again and again by news specials comparing our healthcare to other countries. Good and the bad. I won't from now on because it's hard to keep it all in context. I will assume most people are familiar and have tuned in on their own. If they ask I will provide my findings but they are only my findings, and people are free to talk in regards to their own findings and opinions of other systems as well as their opinions of ours.
BBC News - Can statistics cut the cost of US healthcare?
"I believe that what we're talking about here is not just the salvation of healthcare. I believe it's the salvation of the United States." in regards to changing our healthcare system.
There are good and bad slants on all of the countries I've mentioned healthcare systems which is why It's up for debate. Ours in comparison isn't any better but we spend more for it and have more without it altogether. This is a fact.
This is a debate, not a statement on how I feel about our healthcare. You are open to debate it. With what ever you deem as the facts you've found. You can list what you'd like, when you'd like.
I for one do not want politicians or federal employees to decide what care i can or cannot get. do you really want some bureaucrat to tell you what your surgery mother or your wifes mom can or cannot have?
This is exactly the kind of reactionary stuff you hear. Guess what, the government already tells you this! Within the last month, I had to deal with this same issue for a parent. The authorization for a procedure on Medicare with a wrap-around plan, thus administered by a large provider/insurer, had to be consulted for authorization, and it took 10 working days. Medicare and the auxiliary provider obviously have policy bureaucrats who make the guidelines and determinations. Similarly, patients don't just show, up off the street, and go into a specialist's office. An authorization for the consult has to come from the primary physician, or they risk that it won't be covered.
When I see all this misinformed rhetoric, it's maddening. The whole idea behind the health care reform is that the REMAINDER of Americans can access the health insurance system, and that while it may be indexed, it won't be free of charge. It was intended to enable those with preexisting conditions, those who practice solo or work for small employers, those who are not full-time employees and aren't presented with benefits, those whose COBRA 18 month period has expired, and those above Medicaid thresholds to get insured.
Is there a cost associated with this? Yes. That's why those "who have theirs" are so quick to dismiss this.
Lastly, remember the magic numbers 60, 13, and 13 (again). Respectively, those are the percentages of people who have insurance provided through employers, those who are aged 65 and over and have Medicare, and those who are on a state-run program such as Medicaid because their earnings, if any, are so meager. That people don't want the other 14% to get medical insurance, either through purchasing it at full freight or at some ability-to-pay indexed rate, shows the ugly side of some, actually many, Americans.
Last edited by robertpolyglot; 12-16-2012 at 08:38 PM..
you would have to say either most of the population or a greater percentage. even my relatives stories tells me that not all are happy with the NHS in england.
I'm from the UK (Northern Ireland). Trust me when I say that most of us would NEVER EVER trade our NHS got the for profit system over here, myself included.
BTW I've encountered far more quack doctors and unnecessary testing and over medicating over here. I would love to have my old GP back.
It's called being a "developed" country / society.
No one should have to go without healthcare, from the homeless beggar in the street to the CEO.
This is one of the many ridiculous misnomers about healthcare in the United Sates. The FACT is that EVERYBODY has access to healthcare. Period.
This homeless beggar you alluded to can walk into ANY Hospital Emergency Room in the nation and receive medical care, regardless of his ability to pay. Don't believe me? Go into ANY ER and read the huge sign that they're required by law to display.
The USA desperately needs some form of universal health care system. What specific kind is open to much debate, of course.
First off, morally and ethically, I believe that it's just the right thing to do. Everyone is entitled to healthcare, just by a virtue of their humanity. It's a basic human right, imho.
We are the only developed/rich nation on earth that does not provide some form of UHC for our citizens. It makes no sense, and is quite frankly, embarrassing. Health care costs are spiraling out of control and if we keep on going in this direction, pretty soon no one would be able to afford health insurance, except the uber rich. It's not right that people should have to make such monumental sacrifices and risk financial ruin just so that they can go to the doctor and get the help that they need when they're sick.
In addition, it would allow people to leave jobs that they despise because they would no longer need to work for the insurance, etc. It would enable more people to take risks and start businesses without fear of having no insurance, etc. Plus, it's a proven fact that the US has the most expensive health care system in the world by a landslide and that all other developed countries do things much more cheaply and, often times, produce better results too. I really think it would be a win-win.
I've lived in multiple European countries, as well as Japan and I had no problems with any of these systems. I think one of the biggest problems is ignorance and stupidity on behalf of some of the American people. I think the extreme right-wing wackos do a darn good job at basically brainwashing people into believing a whole bunch of crap like 'socialized medicine", "death panels", and "killing the old people", etc. etc. While in reality, this couldn't be further from the truth. The sad bit is, many of these ignorant, uneducated, lower income people who make up huge amounts of the GOP base are the ones who could really benefit from health care reform. It's a vicious cycle.
But I have faith that our great country will do the right thing, eventually. I don't think Obamacare is a complete solution, or the best way of going about health care reform, but it's a step in the right direction.
The USA desperately needs some form of universal health care system. What specific kind is open to much debate, of course. I agree wholeheartedly that reform is desperately needed. I'm not sure that UHC is the answer, partly because nobody knows how to define it.
First off, morally and ethically, I believe that it's just the right thing to do. Everyone is entitled to healthcare, just by a virtue of their humanity. It's a basic human right, imho. Actually, the fact is, we pretty much already have this. Every individual state has their own "funded healthcare system" in addition to federal programs. Free/affordable healthcare IS available to the poor and low-income people. This FACT is often ignored.
We are the only developed/rich nation on earth that does not provide some form of UHC for our citizens. Refer to previous comment.
It makes no sense, and is quite frankly, embarrassing. Health care costs are spiraling out of control and if we keep on going in this direction, pretty soon no one would be able to afford health insurance, except the uber rich. It's not right that people should have to make such monumental sacrifices and risk financial ruin just so that they can go to the doctor and get the help that they need when they're sick.
In addition, it would allow people to leave jobs that they despise because they would no longer need to work for the insurance, etc. It would enable more people to take risks and start businesses without fear of having no insurance, etc. Plus, it's a proven fact that the US has the most expensive health care system in the world by a landslide and that all other developed countries do things much more cheaply and, often times, produce better results too. I really think it would be a win-win. Actually, the way ObamaCare is designed, there are going to be a LOT of business going out of business, simply because they cannot afford the healthcare mandate that is going to cost them dearly. Then where are their employees? The funding for it MUST come from someplace other than already-strapped business and small companies.
I've lived in multiple European countries, as well as Japan and I had no problems with any of these systems. I think one of the biggest problems is ignorance and stupidity on behalf of some of the American people. I think the extreme right-wing wackos do a darn good job at basically brainwashing people into believing a whole bunch of crap like 'socialized medicine", "death panels", and "killing the old people", etc. etc. While in reality, this couldn't be further from the truth. The sad bit is, many of these ignorant, uneducated, lower income people who make up huge amounts of the GOP base are the ones who could really benefit from health care reform. It's a vicious cycle. Partisan bull$hit noted.
But I have faith that our great country will do the right thing, eventually. I don't think Obamacare is a complete solution, or the best way of going about health care reform, but it's a step in the right direction.
It does no good to act as though the United States could immediately convert to a healthcare system employed by much smaller countries, that are literally nothing like this country.
In the VERY FEW countries where Universal Healthcare IS working, it's because it is being funded by something other than taxes. Sweden, for instance, funds healthcare by oil sales. Canada's healthcare is funded provincially, not federally - and is done so by the sale of natural resources.
Until the FUNDING problem can be solved, any Universal Healthcare Mandates - ObamaCare and others - will be nothing but a national debacle.
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With what ever you deem as the facts you've found. You can list what you'd like, when you'd like. 
