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TRANSLATION: I can't refute anything the OP said, but I hate it anyway, so I'll attack him personally instead, call him names, and try to pretend there was something wrong with his post, and hope somebody believes me instead of him.
Here's a refutation: every other first-world nation has more restrictive gun control than us, and every other first-world nation has much lower homicide rates than we do. We are the sole outlier in the developed world for our level of civilian militarization and our murder rate. And it's insanity to think that even more guns will somehow make us safer, when we already have the greatest number and concentration of guns in the first world and are the least safe of all of those nations. How's that for a paradox? That refutes everything you've ever said on this topic, or ever will say.
When did this staggering revelation burst upon you?
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In Minnesota, hunting is big. But no one hunts with a semi-automatic rifle.
I lived in Minnesota for five years and made the acquaintance of several people who hunted with BARs in 30.06 and a guy who had a Garand he regularly bagged deer with.
Nice try.
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And I can understand a handgun,
You education is proceeding in leaps and bounds.
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I do think that many guns should be limited
(sigh) Well, we can't expect the poor fellow to get better all at once.
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It doesn't make sense to have a concealed-carry permit, because all that means is that you'd rather respond to a shooting than to pre-empt it.
Didn't even read the OP, did we?
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I just want to emphasize civility.
Then start by telling the truth, and by reading what somebody wrote before telling him he's wrong. Then you can take pride in actually emphasizing civility, instead of just claiming you "want" to.
I have to disagree. I think that a person can reasonably own a gun. In Minnesota, hunting is big. But no one hunts with a semi-automatic rifle. And I can understand a handgun, if someone wants to deter something. No one robs Dunkin Donuts when three cops are there.
I do think that many guns should be limited and I disagree with concealed carry laws. It doesn't make sense to have a concealed-carry permit, because all that means is that you'd rather respond to a shooting than to pre-empt it.
I just want to emphasize civility. I think any debate should be framed forcefully and with conviction, but branding your opponent as insane is the easiest way to reach stalemate. Opponents of gun control had their worldview shaken this week, and the easiest way to have that worldview reaffirmed once again is to continue to treat them in ways that make them think that gun-safety advocates are just mean. As soon as we all descend into name-caling, we are descending from the kind of debate that changes mind and builds society in a productive fashion.
Look, I am not name calling. These ideas are the core of their worldview. Now whether I write that they are conspiracy theorists and racists and very afraid, doesn't change the reality that those ideas are what motivate their thoughts concerning this issue.
Also, I am not talking about gun owners. I am talking about these gun nuts that make up the NRA who fight tooth and nail any effort to place any restrictions on guns.
What ever the OP said, I'd just prefer schools teach and civility enforce personal responsibility, in all things. And if famous people want to require that ordinary citizens relinquish any of their rights to own and bear, then those requiring such action should relinquish their body guards first.
Well, I would hate to interrupt you while you're being touched.
So AC was busy giving this *** bag the fame he killed so many innocent children to get.
Great!
Now the next unbalanced puke who decides to go out with a bang will know the soulless ratings-driven media will be sure to spell his name correctly when they announce the next new record body count.
As for the teachers and other staff, they cowered in closets with children they could not protect while other little kids were slaughtered in a nearby classroom because liberals who support gun-free zones believe mass-murdering maniacs will obey gun laws.
Actually, for the past 2 days CNN has barely mentioned the shooter's name, and for that very reason. It's why Cooper was reading a list of those who were slaughtered, and adding personal details...because this is about the innocent children, the teachers and staff who are important. And as a matter of fact, the principal and another staff member told two teachers they were meeting with to hide, and they went out of the office to try and detain Lanza. So you are very wrong, and on so many levels. To make this ungodly act a political football is tasteless and crude, and mirrors the killer's depravity.
He's still giving the speech now, as I type this. But I am greatly moved by what he said.
There was the usual fluff, the slow-motion enunciation, the downcast eyes, the chewing of the lower lip. I was eerily reminded of an odd blend of Al Gore and Bill Clinton.
But that aside, the SUBSTANCE of the speech is what made me pay attention. The President asked if he (and we) in good conscience could wait any longer before "doing something about this", referrring of course to the horrible shootings at the elementary school in Newtown, and he also mentioned other shootings in Aurora, and Columbine High School.
Bravo, Mr. President. I fully agree, and support what you said. We cannot wait any longer, and Government *must* do what it can to reduce or stop such horrors from happening any longer.
We have seen the things that have been tried so far. Gun-free zones - a complete failure. Nearly every such shooting has taken place in exactly such "gun-free zone". In fact, there is reason to believe the shooters planned it that way, knowing their victims had been disarmed in advance, and were unlikely to shoot back. Assault-weapons bans - another failure. We had one in place for upwards of ten years. How many of these mass shootings took place while it was in effect? Cities and states have also had restrictions on such "assault weapns", however vaguely defined or undefined. And these are exactly the places where, time and again, these shootings took place. They have likewise been a complete failure.
And in this latest horrific mass murder, what was the only thing that prevented it from being EVEN WORSE? Many news outlets have pointed out the answer. This insane whacko had some ten or fifteen minutes in that room with those terrified, screaming children - time enough to walk up to each one, the medical examinerts have said, and shoot them at point-blank range, more than once, and ensure they were DEAD. Have you noticed how few "wounded" there were? This guy was able to shoot virtually EVERY victim, and KEEP shooting them, until they were DEAD.
And, some authorities have said, he might well have gone on to shoot others, except for one thing that finally occurred: Men with guns showed up to stop him. When he saw they had arrived (however belatedly), only then did he stop firing at the small innocent children. And he turned his gun on himself. And the slaughter finally ended. Due entirely to the arrival of men with guns.
But before that happened, he had a relatively long time, during which NO ONE AROUND HIM HAD A GUN. And he knew it. And he used that time, to leisurely kill 27 people.
Mr. President, THANK YOU for finally taking the gloves off. As you said, it is clear that we can no longer continue to let what has gone on far too long, to continue. It is time for government to act. Thank you for bringing up this hard, harsh reality. Because ignoring it, and letting things go on as they have for so many years, only lets these horrors continue. Nothing could be clearer, especially now, with the bodies of those twenty small children and seven adults barely cool.
It is time to engender safer surroundings for our children - the kind of surroundings so callously denied them by for 10-15 horror-filled minutes that morning a few days ago, when a crazed lunatic had time to mercilessly gun down AN ENTIRE CLASSROOM full of our most precious and innocent, knowing no one could stop him. Thos useless "gun free zones" that gave the lunatic the assurance he wanted, must end. The worthless "assault weapons bans" that did nothing to prevent other such horror-filled times, must be swept aside.
Thank you, Mr. President, for declaring that now, finally we must do something that WORKS. These insane, murderous wretches must be denied the assurance that law-abiding people will be disarmed and left helpless before them. Obviously these insane freaks are not afraid to die themselves - this latest one calmly took his own life, and clearly planned to do it from the very beginning, and many of the other insane freaks have done. And just as clearly, this insane freak wanted to rack up a huge enough body count, commit such a horrible crime, that he would be assured of weeks of gory headlines, moths of bloodcurdling reports and analyses and hand-wringing on a nationwide scale, far more than he could hope to get by "merely" shooting one or two people. Ne needed the time and opportunity to shoot a LOT of people before taking his own life... and we gave it to him.
No more.
Mr. President, as you said so eloquently tonight, we can't let this go on. We must do the only thing that PREVENTS such insane murderers from getting the lurid headlines and infamous legacy they so desire. We must let any responsible persons at these most precious repositories of our most precious children, arm themselves if they so desire, and make themselves ready to deny people like this mass murderer the fame he seeks, before or after his own death.
The benefits are multiple, and the risks... well, how can the risks be any worse than the ones you so eloquently described tonight? Insens murderers like the Newtown shooter must be aware that, if/when they start on their horrible rampages, they will NOT have 10-15 minute to rack up their headline-making body counts before responsible people with guns show up. Instead, they have only seconds... not nearly enough time to methodically walk up to child after child and deliver multiple, carefully spaced shots into their terrified, pleading faces.
These insane murderers know that people with guns are right there, inside the same locked gates they themselves forced their way through. And the murderer must know that a bullt that will end his rampage is only seconds away... and might come from any of the people outside (or even inside) the classroom he is in. Most people at the school will still not be armed, of course. But a few will be... and he will have no idea which ones they are, nor what direction the bullet might come from. Only that it will come... and QUICKLY, not after 10 or 15 minutes.
Mr. President, thank you for your decision to not let the status quo remain. Thank you for finally deciding to change course, and do what will finally WORK. Thank youu most of all, for deciding to set up a situation where these insane murderers know, BEFORE THEY EVEN START, that their dreams of luring, workld-gripping headlines will never materialize. These insane murderers are obviously unafraid of dying. But finally we will be able to deny them what they DO want: Horrible, infamous fame, even in death.
These murderers are undeniably insane... but they still have enough cognizance left to plan how to get through locked gates, plan to accumulate and bring enough weapons and ammunition to do what they set out to do, etc. And they clearly have enough sanity, however fleeting, to know what they want, and to make elaborate plans to get it... and to react when they find it is not possible any more. And there is a reasonable chance that, even as insane as they obvuiously are, they might decide that since they will be unable to kill the dozens of people they want to... perhaps they should no longer bother to try. And maybe they should simply turn the gun on themselves in the few second we have left them, instead of taking away our most precious.
Thank you, Mr. President for finally deciding to change course. Thank you for deciding we have had enough of "responses" that have not worked. Thank you for declaring to the nation, in the moment of our greatest grief and outrage, that we will change course and do soemthig that reduces or PREVENTS these rare, insane whackos from doing these things to us.
I await your efforts to campaign against, sweep aside, and repeal the useless, unworkable schemes of the past, which have failed so regularly while our precious children keep dying in these horrible massacres they did nothing to prevent. Thank you for working to get rid of laws that disarm the only people who can save us from these monsterswho would murder us. Thank you for finally providing what the authors of the 2nd amendment knew all along: that ordinary, law-abiding Ameican citizens are the last - and indeed the only - real defense against the insane monsters in our midst. Thank you for repealing things like "may issue" restrictions that keep our only real defenders from helping us. Thank you for pledging to sweep away paranoid gun bans in cities like New York, San Francisco, Washington DC, and your own native Chicago that disarm only the innocent victims while the insane murderers go right on arming themselves and killing us and our children.
Even after you sweep aside these restrictions on our defending ourselves, you know and we know that most of us will still not bother arming ourselves in our everyday comings and goings. But a few of us will... and the occasional insane monsters lurking among us, will never know which ones we are. And this very knowledge may be enough to stop some of them from doing their horrible deeds. For the few that are still insane enough to try anyway, these new provisions will ensure that the insane ones will be kept busy enough - and soon, wounded or incapacitated quickly enough - to reduce the body count from dozens to far smaller numbers. Still horrible, but not as horrible as what happened where you are presently giving your speech: The elementary school in Newtown, CT where 20 precious children lie dead along with 7 adults who tried to save them. But could not, in part due to the very laws that we must now acknowledge did far more harm than good.
Thank you, Mr. President. I admire your courage in this change in course. And I fully support your efforts to get rid of the laws that have allowed so many massacres to continue... but hopefully will not longer be allowed to do so.
I totally disagree with you what we need is a " sworn law enforcement officer " armed with his hand gun and assault rifle at every elementary , middle school and high school ( that would put a complete instant stop ) to all of this madness........
I have actually read the original post, and I apologize if I offended anyone with what could be construed as hypocritical calls for civility. I just follow threads conversationally, and hope that they end up somewhere better than they started out with. I read the OP about an hour and a half ago, so it really is my fault if I agreed then contradicted it, or whatever is being said. I do not hunt, and it would make sense that because of that, I can't really distinguish the destructive ability of two semi-automatic weapons. My point is that at a certain point, that destructive ability is too large to be of use to a hunter. The same goes for high capacity magazines and other gun accoutrements that don't add to the sport of hunting. We should certainly respect the rights of gun owners, but there are measures that could be taken to prevent massacres like this, which exclude certain capabilities. I'm not a policy maker, and were I, I would at the very least make an aide do some research before writing a bill.
Little-Acorn, I would appreciate if you would treat my statements the way they are intended, and to be read as a whole, then interpreted, rather than dissected line for line. I feel it dilutes the meaning a bit. I'm certain that you too have statements that can be taken out of context.
I totally disagree with you what we need is a " sworn law enforcement officer " armed with his hand gun and assault rifle at every elementary , middle school and high school ( that would put a complete instant stop ) to all of this madness........
Why stop there? Why not armed soldiers everywhere? Tanks in the streets? TSA type security at every public place?
Where have we seen those kinds of societies? No thank you.
And PS: it still wouldn't stop the crazies.
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