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I do wonder about the parents. Okay. They knew the kid was not normal. He dropped out of college, could not hold down a job, had no friends. And they take him out shooting? For a hobby?
This kid should have been involved in supported employment. High functioning Autism is difficult to manage. The kid seems bright, but can't function socially. And can't process things normally. They need specialized supports to maintain employment. His parents did not help normalize their child. They just let him hang out. And spin. Bad.
That's not what I'm arguing. If he had lived, I don't think he would have met the legal standard for insanity.
However, seriously mentally ill people do in fact kill themselves because of the pain they are suffering becomes unbearable, combined with killing little children and teachers. Who knows how long the shooter was severely mentally ill because it is difficult to diagnose mental illnesses in patients with Aspergers. Deep, deep depression, paranoia and rage are an extremely dangerous combination of mental disturbances, and the longer those conditions are present without treatment the more likely there will be a violent event.
They kill themselves because they do not wish to suffer the consequenses of their actions, they are not insane, but are unable to accept responsibilty for their actions.
Depression, paranoia and rage are not illnesses, but behaviors.
I do wonder about the parents. Okay. They knew the kid was not normal. He dropped out of college, could not hold down a job, had no friends. And they take him out shooting? For a hobby?
This kid should have been involved in supported employment. High functioning Autism is difficult to manage. The kid seems bright, but can't function socially. And can't process things normally. They need specialized supports to maintain employment. His parents did not help normalize their child. They just let him hang out. And spin. Bad.
Oh...they took him out shooting. Great.
I may be incorrect about this, but I remember reading that the mother took him with her for her to shoot, but no one remembered the son ever shooting. He just went with her. Shooting was the hobby of the mother.
I also read that in the divorce papers of the parents there was mention that the son was diagnosed with aspergers, that the mother wanted to take care of him, even if that meant the rest of his life, the father gave the mother the very nice 3100 sq foot house, plus this past year she received $289,000 in support from the father. The divorce documents seemed to be full of concern and care for the son. People with Aspergers are often very, very difficult to diagnose with mental illnesses because of the challenges they have expressing emotions.......so they can be suffering from severe depression, etc., for a very long period of time and no one realizes it.
They kill themselves because they do not wish to suffer the consequenses of their actions, they are not insane, but are unable to accept responsibilty for their actions.
Depression, paranoia and rage are not illnesses, but behaviors.
I beg your pardon, but severe depression is a mental illness/disturbance. Why do you think people are treated for depression and there are medications for the disorder. Sometimes it's clinical depression (brain chemistry problems) and sometimes it's circumstantial. At any rate "depression" is not just a "behavior" ......and I'm not sure what you mean by that. Are you saying that people just "act" depressed for whatever reason, and there is no treatment needed? That they just want attention?
As for paranoia, try reading this link.
Researchers do not understand fully what chemical or physical changes in the brain cause paranoia. Paranoia is a prominent symptom that occurs in a variety of different mental disorders, as well as a symptom of certain physical diseases. Furthermore, use of certain drugs or chemicals may cause symptoms of paranoia in an otherwise normal individual.[LEFT]
Read more: Paranoia - dose, causes, therapy, withdrawal, drug, person, people, medication
Rage is irrational and most definitely can be the result of long term depression and paranoia.
As for not wanting to face the consequences of their actions, don't you think that blowing your brains out is a pretty serious consequence of your actions? I personally don't think people to murder one person or do a mass killing like this one think for one minute about the legal consequences. If they were rational enough to think like that, to be worried about going to prison or getting the death penalty, and had one ounce of impulse control, they would not kill anyone.
I think he had a lot more going on than Aspergers. It must have been a combination of issues. Personality disorder perhaps, sociopath, wrong prescription drugs/treatment, chemical imbalance, I dunno. What he did was premeditated, so his issues weren't just a mental illness. He knew what he was doing, so imo he was wicked and evil too. Hitler killed himself and he was certainly evil.
They kill themselves because they do not wish to suffer the consequenses of their actions, they are not insane, but are unable to accept responsibilty for their actions.
Depression, paranoia and rage are not illnesses, but behaviors.
The actions they commit are what determine if they are evil or not. In some people's minds, no person is responsible for their actions. Murder a child? Molest the neighbor kid? Torture cats? No, you're not evil, you're just ill. Bullchit. They are evil. The person may be ill as well, but their actions make them evil.
Seems like I have read that something like 25% of the population of this country is on some sort of psychoactive drugs. Does that mean that this 25% can murder people and be excused because they are "sick"? No. They are still responsible for their actions. There are plenty of people that are "depressed" that do not go out and commit murder.
I may be incorrect about this, but I remember reading that the mother took him with her for her to shoot, but no one remembered the son ever shooting. He just went with her. Shooting was the hobby of the mother.
I also read that in the divorce papers of the parents there was mention that the son was diagnosed with aspergers, that the mother wanted to take care of him, even if that meant the rest of his life, the father gave the mother the very nice 3100 sq foot house, plus this past year she received $289,000 in support from the father. The divorce documents seemed to be full of concern and care for the son. People with Aspergers are often very, very difficult to diagnose with mental illnesses because of the challenges they have expressing emotions.......so they can be suffering from severe depression, etc., for a very long period of time and no one realizes it.
Well, INMO, she did not take very good care of her son. Taking care of a kid with obvious issues does not mean just feeding and clothing him. She was in obvious denial about her son's abilities and disabilities. Her son needed structure and support.
I think he had a lot more going on than Aspergers. It must have been a combination of issues. Personality disorder perhaps, sociopath, wrong prescription drugs/treatment, chemical imbalance, I dunno. What he did was premeditated, so his issues weren't just a mental illness. He knew what he was doing, so imo he was wicked and evil too. Hitler killed himself and he was certainly evil.
Some mentally ill people are certainly capable of planning. In fact, the planning portion gives them relief for awhile. Then usually something triggers them to take the action. And some never act on the plan.
Ted Bundy was "wicked and evil"........he did not have a mental illness. This shooter was diagnosed with aspergers, which means that he was tested somewhere. Are you familiar with the symptoms of aspergers? A serious "personality disorder," like anti-social personality disorder (which was the Ted Bundy diagnosis) is pretty easily diagnosed, so I would think this shooter didn't have that problem. Additionally, sociopaths are almost always QUITE CHARMING, people like them, they make friends easily and are usually outgoing. That is the OPPOSITE of aspergers.
An action being "premeditated" does NOT PRECLUDE mental illnesses. It could have been "premeditated" as a result of severe paranoid delusions.
Well, INMO, she did not take very good care of her son. Taking care of a kid with obvious issues does not mean just feeding and clothing him. She was in obvious denial about her son's abilities and disabilities. Her son needed structure and support.
Well, obviously she was not qualified to take care of her son as an adult, as we can all see from the result of his actions. And she is dead.
I'm interested to see if there is anything to the internet or maybe it was a FOX story that she was concerned about his and her well being and had started the process to have him committed. I know it's coming from "suspicious" sources, but there are parts of that story that make sense. If he found out she was trying to have him committed, and IF he was paranoid, that could have sent him through the roof but UNABLE to express that rage in an external way because of the aspergers. I also think that there could have been even more paranoia if his mother was friends with the principal who had something to do with his diagnosis of aspergers, as well as his mother helping teach some of the classes with the little kids. Seems to me that this young man may have been very possessive of his mother because she was his main human contact. Who knows exactly, but clearly something set him off that day, and the rage exploded, and he killed his mother, all those children, teachers and himself.
I agree he became far more to deal with in terms of care and treatment than the mother was qualified to handle. I'm just interested to find out if in fact she was making any moves to have him committed.
We're all looking so hard for someone to blame because this was such an horrendous tragedy. It's a complex series of events. There were many, many failures in doing the best for the young man. Some guru sort of person once said The First Noble Truth is Life is Suffering. I immediately thought that's true and very wise. There will never, ever be endless moments of bliss in anyone's life. Then there are several more Noble Truths, which guide us beyond the suffering. However, there will ALWAYS be horrific tragedies in life, and there will ALWAYS be things we think are wonderful.
In this particular case, IMO, care and treatment for the huge numbers of mentally ill in this country should become a priority, but I don't think there's a snowball's chance in you know where that that will happen.
Well in this case the shoooter knew he was wrong,because he shot himself after killing the others.
He knew that other people would judge him as being wrong. That doesn't mean that he actually believed he was wrong. I think we're free to judge him according to our standards. Our standards say he's a murdering bastard. But in order to be 'evil,' some might argue he himself needs to be aware that he's causing pain, and that he must feel the significance of that pain in order to understand the magnitude of his actions, and that only overriding this could he be considered 'evil'.
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