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You try to be funny, but look everywhere. All costs are passed to consumers.. i.e. the same worker.
So the wage thingy, it's stupid and useless, it does jack for anyone.
You are full of it. In many cases doubling the wage paid would only effect the final product a very small amount. Fot example. Let's say a truck driver gets $100 for a short run. He has 1000 boxes of widgets on board and there are 100 widgets per box. The widgets sell for $10 each. So, the cost per widget for the labour on the trucking is one tenth of a cent. If the driver were to get $200 for the load the cost would be 2 tenths of a cent. If in the final analysis, Walmart had to charge 1 cent more for the widget, who cares? This is not an isolated example either. It applies in hundreds of thousands of applications. People who believe there is a linear relationship between labour costs and final price of goods or services have never run a business. I know a guy who owns and opperates a Tim Hortons coffee business. As is very common in that business he has his entire overhead for that day, wages, supplies, buildings and ALL costs paid by 9AM each and every morning. He too could double wages and have no effect on prices. His profits would be a small % less, that's all. Before the recession we saw this in the MacDonald's in Alberta. If you were not offering $20 an hour for burger flippers then you would not get anyone to work for you period. There was almost 0 unemployment and that was the reality for employeers. I guess you must think the food at MacDees went WAY up in price! Well of course it did not. It was the same price as every other MacDonald's in the country even though those places were paying as low as $10 per hour.
Decent credit? Hah! You have to have some cash every week. They gouge the kids in Oakland for 28% and they are stupid enough to buy. They finance a $5000 car with $2000 in wheels and pay $600 a month. There was a big story on the practice in the paper last year.
"Buy here, pay here" is the way for somebody with some capital to buy cars at auction and sell them to people with zero credit and make huge profits.
Well, still, you have to come up with that $600/mo. Not too many people working min. wage can do that. A $5000 car is not "a better car than I have" to paraphrase the poster I was responding to. That's my point. A lot of min. wage people may have fancy phones, even perhaps a flat-screen TV, but when it comes to cars, they're usually driving clunkers.
Well, still, you have to come up with that $600/mo. Not too many people working min. wage can do that. A $5000 car is not "a better car than I have" to paraphrase the poster I was responding to. That's my point. A lot of min. wage people may have fancy phones, even perhaps a flat-screen TV, but when it comes to cars, they're usually driving clunkers.
They'd be better off driving a new Ford Fiesta for $199 a month that doesn't break down and gets 30mpg. But they'd have to insure it, make the payments, have decent credit, and take care of it.
Those old clunkers look far more gangster, and the old steel stops bullets better than the new steel.
You are full of it. In many cases doubling the wage paid would only effect the final product a very small amount. Fot example. Let's say a truck driver gets $100 for a short run. He has 1000 boxes of widgets on board and there are 100 widgets per box. The widgets sell for $10 each. So, the cost per widget for the labour on the trucking is one tenth of a cent. If the driver were to get $200 for the load the cost would be 2 tenths of a cent. If in the final analysis, Walmart had to charge 1 cent more for the widget, who cares? This is not an isolated example either. It applies in hundreds of thousands of applications. People who believe there is a linear relationship between labour costs and final price of goods or services have never run a business. I know a guy who owns and opperates a Tim Hortons coffee business. As is very common in that business he has his entire overhead for that day, wages, supplies, buildings and ALL costs paid by 9AM each and every morning. He too could double wages and have no effect on prices. His profits would be a small % less, that's all. Before the recession we saw this in the MacDonald's in Alberta. If you were not offering $20 an hour for burger flippers then you would not get anyone to work for you period. There was almost 0 unemployment and that was the reality for employeers. I guess you must think the food at MacDees went WAY up in price! Well of course it did not. It was the same price as every other MacDonald's in the country even though those places were paying as low as $10 per hour.
Interesting theory, but you leave out a few things.
1. Increased wages = increased matching taxes paid.
2. Even minor increases in the cost of widgets, means people need to earn more to keep the same spending power. Also, you neglected the return trip when nothing is on the truck, that has to be paid for as well as fuel.
3. As their wages go up, so do the costs of goods and services they provide. Sooner or later, it's going to affect the cost of the fuel, which increases the cost of shipping those widgets, so their costs go up again.
4. Fast food places like macdonalds have a smaller profit margin to work with, the rise in costs will be more pronounced.
Increases at any level, have a cascading affect in all aspects.
You are full of it. In many cases doubling the wage paid would only effect the final product a very small amount. Fot example. Let's say a truck driver gets $100 for a short run. He has 1000 boxes of widgets on board and there are 100 widgets per box. The widgets sell for $10 each. So, the cost per widget for the labour on the trucking is one tenth of a cent. If the driver were to get $200 for the load the cost would be 2 tenths of a cent. If in the final analysis, Walmart had to charge 1 cent more for the widget, who cares? This is not an isolated example either. It applies in hundreds of thousands of applications. People who believe there is a linear relationship between labour costs and final price of goods or services have never run a business. I know a guy who owns and opperates a Tim Hortons coffee business. As is very common in that business he has his entire overhead for that day, wages, supplies, buildings and ALL costs paid by 9AM each and every morning. He too could double wages and have no effect on prices. His profits would be a small % less, that's all. Before the recession we saw this in the MacDonald's in Alberta. If you were not offering $20 an hour for burger flippers then you would not get anyone to work for you period. There was almost 0 unemployment and that was the reality for employeers. I guess you must think the food at MacDees went WAY up in price! Well of course it did not. It was the same price as every other MacDonald's in the country even though those places were paying as low as $10 per hour.
You do not get it. There are more costs to producing something than just a truck ok.
The retailers, like walmar, are running on very thin margins. Doubling all truckers wages would destroy those margins and soon enough walmart would be bankrupt. Irrespective of whether walmart goes bankrupt or not, someone will eat the that wage increase. It would be either walmart or consumers. With retailers running on thin margins, i would bet anything consumers foot the bill. I am not making this up, this is economics 101. The cent difference would make the trucker happy and may not matter to the trucker, or perhaps you, but it's removing purchasing power from consumers and transfering it to the trucker. The economy is like a huge weighing machine, adding money somewhere means removing it from somewhere else. There would be zero benefit on tax revenues, jack.
What would happen in such scenario is that walmart will study how feasible it would be to raise prices to accomodate for the wage increase, if not feasible, it wont happen. If feasible, consumers foot the bill.
That is... a wage increase nets to jack for society. Most are oblivious to the fact we eat food, we wear clothing, live in homes, drive cars...those are the things we need more of... money is useless if you can't buy jack with it.
Capish?
Last edited by SarasotaBound1; 01-06-2013 at 12:50 PM..
Interesting theory, but you leave out a few things.
1. Increased wages = increased matching taxes paid.
2. Even minor increases in the cost of widgets, means people need to earn more to keep the same spending power. Also, you neglected the return trip when nothing is on the truck, that has to be paid for as well as fuel.
3. As their wages go up, so do the costs of goods and services they provide. Sooner or later, it's going to affect the cost of the fuel, which increases the cost of shipping those widgets, so their costs go up again.
4. Fast food places like macdonalds have a smaller profit margin to work with, the rise in costs will be more pronounced.
Increases at any level, have a cascading affect in all aspects.
I was on the road in the USA for almost 5 years. I think I had maybe 2 empty runs out of thousands during that time. Maybe profit margins in fast food are slim in the USA but here in Canada the owners make millions. I don't begrudge them that at all. They have fairly big investments in those businesses.
Another comment in the entire equation which I might say is not going to be a popular ideais that in my opinion almost all consummer goods are way to inexpensive relative to wages. People buy too much junk and don't take care of the things they have. If you go into a Walmart in Mexico you will see that goods there are even more expensive than in the USA and the Mexicans make a tenth what an American worker makes. If the American worker made more money and imported goods cost a lot more then American companies could supply their own markets, the people could afford to buy those more expensive and higher quality goods and everyone would be a winner. You probably don't realize this but in Germany 85% of everything purchased in the country is made in Germany.
WE in the west do not have to accept our standard of living dropping to that of third world standards because of globalization no matter what the masters of the Universe tell us. Sure it's good for them but really horrible for our entire society, the stability of our institutions and the good of our countries. This entire idea of high wages, {BAD} low wages, {Good} is nothing but complete brainwashing propaganda from the extreme right.
I was on the road in the USA for almost 5 years. I think I had maybe 2 empty runs out of thousands during that time. Maybe profit margins in fast food are slim in the USA but here in Canada the owners make millions. I don't begrudge them that at all. They have fairly big investments in those businesses.
Another comment in the entire equation which I might say is not going to be a popular ideais that in my opinion almost all consummer goods are way to inexpensive relative to wages. People buy too much junk and don't take care of the things they have. If you go into a Walmart in Mexico you will see that goods there are even more expensive than in the USA and the Mexicans make a tenth what an American worker makes. If the American worker made more money and imported goods cost a lot more then American companies could supply their own markets, the people could afford to buy those more expensive and higher quality goods and everyone would be a winner. You probably don't realize this but in Germany 85% of everything purchased in the country is made in Germany.
WE in the west do not have to accept our standard of living dropping to that of third world standards because of globalization no matter what the masters of the Universe tell us. Sure it's good for them but really horrible for our entire society, the stability of our institutions and the good of our countries. This entire idea of high wages, {BAD} low wages, {Good} is nothing but complete brainwashing propaganda from the extreme right.
Wow..
Again, wages don't matter. What you can buy with that wage is. Everyone has their own agenda...but why don't you guys care about cutting government spending which steals from working families to gove it to government leeches on the left and the right.
You do not get it. There are more costs to producing something than just a truck ok.
The retailers, like walmar, are running on very thin margins. Doubling all truckers wages would destroy those margins and soon enough walmart would be bankrupt. Irrespective of whether walmart goes bankrupt or not, someone will eat the that wage increase. It would be either walmart or consumers. With retailers running on thin margins, i would bet anything consumers foot the bill. I am not making this up, this is economics 101. The cent difference would make the trucker happy and may not matter to the trucker, or perhaps you, but it's removing purchasing power from consumers and transfering it to the trucker. The economy is like a huge weighing machine, adding money somewhere means removing it from somewhere else. There would be zero benefit on tax revenues, jack.
What would happen in such scenario is that walmart will study how feasible it would be to raise prices to accomodate for the wage increase, if not feasible, it wont happen. If feasible, consumers foot the bill.
That is... a wage increase nets to jack for society. Most are oblivious to the fact we eat food, we wear clothing, live in homes, drive cars...those are the things we need more of... money is useless if you can't buy jack with it.
Capish?
It's you who doesn't capish!!!!!! I was talking about A TRUCKDRIVER. That was my example not the complete supply chain. But lets consider the entire supply chain. First of all, who says all of the margins and could easily thrive on a smaller one. Second, goods are too cheap as it is. If the prices of all consummer goods went up 25% I would not give a hoot. As I explained in a previous post, if they went up enough it would greatly stimulate the economy because it would pay to produce things at home rather in the third world.
If you did hot realize it before I'm telling you now that the USA made it's fortunes in being it's own best supplier and being THE exporter to the world. Did you ever wonder why during the 8 GW Bush years the biggest % increase in the American economy was in worthless financial instruments like credit default swaps? It was a desperation move by a nation who's historical economy was going down the tubes and had yet to reinvent a replacement.
When Obama talks about shifting the economy to a made in America energy based economy, he's talking about just one thing that MUST be done to rescue the country from sure ruin. We hear nothing but how the country's economy is being destroyed by government over spending but we hear almost nothing about what will surely destroy the American economy. Negative balance of trade. It's just an amazing thing that the USD is worth anything at all seeing that the country buys billions more every single month than it sells. This can not continue for very much longer. The only reasons it has gone on so long is the world has had confidence in the stability of the USA and in the ability of the country to pay it's debts. Added to that, the fact the USD is the world's reserve currency has also allowed the USA to live beyond it's means and further added to the neglect in recreating a new and vibrant economic order in the country.
To cap it all off you now have the GOP erroding all trust the world has had in the integrity of the USA's debt. If they create another mess raising the debt limit in the coming months it's just another nail in the country's decline. When the world has had enough and the USD is no longer the reserve currency, you are going to be in deep, deep trouble. The USA could be worth 20 cents overnight.
It's you who doesn't capish!!!!!! I was talking about A TRUCKDRIVER. That was my example not the complete supply chain. But lets consider the entire supply chain. First of all, who says all of the margins and could easily thrive on a smaller one. Second, goods are too cheap as it is. If the prices of all consummer goods went up 25% I would not give a hoot. As I explained in a previous post, if they went up enough it would greatly stimulate the economy because it would pay to produce things at home rather in the third world.
If you did hot realize it before I'm telling you now that the USA made it's fortunes in being it's own best supplier and being THE exporter to the world. Did you ever wonder why during the 8 GW Bush years the biggest % increase in the American economy was in worthless financial instruments like credit default swaps? It was a desperation move by a nation who's historical economy was going down the tubes and had yet to reinvent a replacement.
When Obama talks about shifting the economy to a made in America energy based economy, he's talking about just one thing that MUST be done to rescue the country from sure ruin. We hear nothing but how the country's economy is being destroyed by government over spending but we hear almost nothing about what will surely destroy the American economy. Negative balance of trade. It's just an amazing thing that the USD is worth anything at all seeing that the country buys billions more every single month than it sells. This can not continue for very much longer. The only reasons it has gone on so long is the world has had confidence in the stability of the USA and in the ability of the country to pay it's debts. Added to that, the fact the USD is the world's reserve currency has also allowed the USA to live beyond it's means and further added to the neglect in recreating a new and vibrant economic order in the country.
To cap it all off you now have the GOP erroding all trust the world has had in the integrity of the USA's debt. If they create another mess raising the debt limit in the coming months it's just another nail in the country's decline. When the world has had enough and the USD is no longer the reserve currency, you are going to be in deep, deep trouble. The USA could be worth 20 cents overnight.
You are on the right track, but wrong. Do you know anything about trade and currency markets? Here...
For companies to import to the US they must sell the currency of the producing country and buy the currency where they are exporting. This should, and i stress SHOULD, make our currency stronger meaning thag their profit margins would narrow. Eventually, it would not be profitable to produce abroad, and they shift operations back home..
Why doesn't this happen than? Well, remember the dollar is the RESERVE currency? By devaluing the dollar, the fed/gov bypass this control. This is what it takes to keep spending like we are. Look, i dont mind if these countries are willing to send us their goods and services for stupid paper, that's cool. In order for the government to keep this going, jobs can NEVER return. Your choice, jobs or gov spending. Obama, the fed, congress are spineless sacks of sh*t, they know this full well.
But the bigger issue is this. The manufacturing, high tech, etc, skills move to those countries. After a while, we don't know anything aside from cooking hamburgers and hotdogs. Therein lies the trouble, we become a society unable to self subsist. Be honest with your self, you do see this issue, don't you?
Again, a raise to a truck driver improves the truckers economy at the expense of everyone else. It's economics 101.
Gold, btw, would resolve this issue.
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