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According to William Geldart, Introduction to English Law 146 (D.C.M. Yardley ed., 9th ed. 1984),
"The difference between civil law and criminal law turns on the difference between two different objects which law seeks to pursue - redress or punishment. The object of civil law is the redress of wrongs by compelling compensation or restitution: the wrongdoer is not punished; he only suffers so much harm as is necessary to make good the wrong he has done. The person who has suffered gets a definite benefit from the law, or at least he avoids a loss. On the other hand, in the case of crimes, the main object of the law is to punish the wrongdoer; to give him and others a strong inducement not to commit same or similar crimes, to reform him if possible and perhaps to satisfy the public sense that wrongdoing ought to meet with retribution.”
Nobody's playing semantics. You're using terms that don't make any sense and are inaccurate. In the US there's civil law, and criminal law. There's no such thing as a "civil criminal offense." The bomber is a US citizen, and he's being tried in civilian court.
Thank You. System won't let me rep you again right now.
Someone was getting very confused in re the word "civil" and "civilian"........somehow it appears the thought was that if someone were tried in civilian court that meant it was a "civil" case...as opposed to civilian court vs. military court.
Of course there is no such thing as civil criminal court. However, I'm not sure this information will do much to cure the misunderstanding by some people.
I find WBC to be a despicable organization who attempts to profit on the pain of others. But, have they done anything more than picketing? Have they made and detonated bombs resulting in the deaths of innocent people? If not, while I find them laughable and foolish, I would not put them on the same level as militant Islamic organizations that have.
I hear you and agree with you that the WBC has not (to my knowledge) attempted to inflict physical pain on others.
My point in bringing up the WBC is that its members most likely consider themselves and their acts to be Christian, while most Christians consicder their acts to be un-Christian and deplorable.
And by corollary, if you accept that, then you have to accept that the possibility that there is a radical element which calls itself "Islam" which most Moslems want nothing to do with.
But hey, if you are looking for bombing and killing by Christians in the name of Christ, look no further than Ireland (Orange Volunteers), as has already been pointed out on this thread.
If the cough medicine contains pseudoephedrine or ephedrine, you're limited to one bottle a day because they use it to make meth. They put it behind the counter and you have to ask for it and sign off. We usually just use robitussin, mucinex (which actually works really well) or get a prescription from our doctor if someone is really sick, but my kids are all older.
Thanks. Yes, I didn't want to look up the names of the drugs! That's why asked what someone was giving small children. Showing ID isn't violating a person's rights. If I were driving down the street and stopped at a checkpoint, I'd be happy to oblige. That's how we keep drunk drivers off the street. The Republicans want all of us to show our licenses to vote, right? Actually, I think that's a pretty good idea. I only thought the timing a big suspicious. So showing a license when purchasing drugs that can be used to make meth or that might be harmful isn't such a big deal, at least not to me.
Regarding CVS, in FL I need to use a card to get sale prices. They already have my name in their computer. I gave up a long time ago. Walgreens began doing the same thing. If you've ever filled a prescription, your name is in their database anyway. It doesn't mean the "government" is spying on you.
Getting back to the subject of the manhunt in Boston, while people are so concerned about showing ID or the government taking away their guns, why aren't they questioning the Martial Law declared in Massachusetts? Banks were closed, public transportation was unavailable, there were 9000 cops and SWAT teams, helicopters, tanks, National Guard, FBI.... this was to catch one 19 year old.
On another thread someone implied I wasn't proud of being an American. I was born in the heart of Boston at one of the hospitals where the victims are being treated. I spent most of my life living in towns like Watertown and Waltham. I went to Newton South High School. I love Boston. I have voted since I was old enough at 21. Questioning authority has nothing to do with being unpatriotic. We're all afraid of doing this because it's not popular.
Getting back to the subject of the manhunt in Boston, while people are so concerned about showing ID or the government taking away their guns, why aren't they questioning the Martial Law declared in Massachusetts? Banks were closed, public transportation was unavailable, there were 9000 cops and SWAT teams, helicopters, tanks, National Guard, FBI.... this was to catch one 19 year old.
I guess when 6 guys in desert camo show up at your house armed and looking like military....you let them in.
My thoughts were that whoever it was was local just because the Boston Marathon just isn't on most people's radars.
I DO think the right wing thing got more play than it would have otherwise simply because it was tax day.
The whole Homeland Security/Janet Reno "See Something, Say Something" program last winter was launched profiling white middle class Tea partier types as the new "terrorist". Don't you all remember?
That was went they "partnered" with Walmart and you began to see shoppers tattling on each other.
So the initial announcements were all about---especially in "Salon" magazine that the suspect of the bombing had better be or probably was etc etc a "right wing extremist". Then when the photos of what looked like swarms of Navy Seals in black tops and tan pants appeared on-line that millions had already seen the pictures of before their big "announcement" of who the "lone wolf" was was not only delayed but was taken back.
Then the big tease of the big announcements of who the suspects were that kept changing started. Even a half brain dead American should have thought that was a bit strange but NOOOOooo. The American Sheeple will believe whatever you tell them to believe. They could have announced that Mickey Mouse escaped from Disney World and did it and most of you not only would have believed it but you would have accused anyone else who had seen actual evidence and thought otherwise as wearing a tin-foil hat.
Sorry folks but the sand covering your heads is eroding away. You might be better off to finally wake up and start to smell the coffee. If the truth be told, we don't live in the dream world you think we do. No amount of sports or "Dancing with the Stars" can change that.
Getting back to the subject of the manhunt in Boston, while people are so concerned about showing ID or the government taking away their guns, why aren't they questioning the Martial Law declared in Massachusetts? Banks were closed, public transportation was unavailable, there were 9000 cops and SWAT teams, helicopters, tanks, National Guard, FBI.... this was to catch one 19 year old.
That's probably because Martial Law wasn't declared in Boston, I don't recall seeing any tanks on TV too. Armored vehicles/Bearcats yes, Tanks? No.
For years, civil libertarians have mucked up the debate about antiterror efforts. They've said that profiling is TERRIBLE. Any effort to point out its universal use in law enforcement (as in "what kind of person are we looking for as a suspect") fell on deaf ears.
I'm here to protest that if our security forces are NOT profiling, they should be fired. With the massive waves of people entering and leaving this country, how can they usefully watch them with no structure.
Anybody watch the crime scene investigation shows. CSU comes in, sweeps the crime scene, picks up every TEENY piece of something that "might be a lead". No choice. The one detail you skip could be the one that eventually becomes part of the solution.
Now our anti-profilers would stop them there. No fair to "discriminate" between details of evidence. Thankfully, law enforcement knows that from that point on, its a matter of eliminating things that lead nowhere. You can call it "processing", you can call it "analysis", but discernment is such a fundamental part of all science that you might as well quit beforehand as not use it. I guess civil liberties and science are antithetical. Well,at least to stupid people. One of the aspects of analysis is to ELIMINATE potential suspects. It has to be done. Unless you achieve narrow focus, the process of solving a mystery is impossible.
That's what security must do for "profiling". It must resist any temptaion of the "easy route" where a class of people are the suspects. For example, there's an entire branch of Islam that emphasizes personal struggle and condemns armed violence. Chasing a suspect down that road is foolish on its face. But we also have the jihadi salafists who are not the least shy about murdering not only Christians and Jews but also "false Muslims". That's like iron filings to a magnet. If you aren't locating and tracking them in all their loci (whiich is pretty much the length and breadth of Asia), you are just pretending to do the job.
And there also are categories of Muslims who somehow hanker for the precise spots where we know the jihadi Salafists agitate. That's another category. People who've lived among peaceful people and never integrated. Those people need to be watched. Falling in that category are a bunch of familiar people: Nidal Hassan, the Army surgeon who shot fellow soldiers at Fort Hood. Faisal Shahzad, the guy from Connecticut who prepared a van to blow up in Times Square. Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, the Nigerian who traveled to Yemen where he was outfitted with explosive underwear, in hopes of blowing up a plane bound for Detroit. Mohamed Osman Mohamud, the student in Oregon who tried to bomb downtown Portland Oregon. I don't know which of these were actually focused through analysis. I do know that Abdulmutallab was not only not reported by the US embassy in Lagos, he was missed boarding a Delta plane in Amsterdam. These are failures of analysis. And if peaceable Americans are ever to be safe, the word "profiling" has to be refuted, analysis needs to be understood as a requirement, and it needs to be done better than it was done with the Tsarnaev brothers.
Media does another 180 this time ADMITS it was a set up/False Flag (that Alex Jones and infowars.com had suggested all along). They ADMIT the announcement of the "drill" beforehand and the bomb sniffing dogs. Check the NY Times. Even check Glenn Beck who loves to malign Alex Jones. Sorry but there is no such thing as conspiracy theories now. It is called our pathetic REALITY and even more pathetic government and government agencies.
Just a couple of quick questions for all of you jr. detective super sleuths out there convinced this was an inside job.
If the government was trying to "pin" the attack at the Boston Marathon on those two brothers, then how did they know in advance that the boys would be at the race where they would be widely photographed? How did one of the injured runners directly identify the oldest brother as the guy who sat the bag down that blew up directly next to him a few minutes later? He said he looked him in the eye. In fact, when he became conscious, he started writing out that he'd seen the bomber, and he helped to identify him from crowd photos. Why are there photographs of the boys with bags before the blast, and no bags after the blast? If the boys were innocent and saw themselves on TV as suspected terrorists, why didn't they contact law enforcement to try to straighten it out, vs. stealing a car and hiding out? Wouldn't law enforcement take them into custody immediately if they were trying to set them up--before they released the pictures to the public--if they knew who they were and were trying to frame them? If they were innocent, why did they have home made bombs with them in the car that they threw at police? I could believe that they might have assault rifles at home, but how many people have home made hand grenades stored for a rainy day?
I could keep going, but I've made my point. None of what you're suggesting even remotely adds up. Do you think it's possible that they had extra security, including LE from a variety of agencies along with bomb sniffing dogs, because it's a major public event and terrorism is always a concern at major, open public events? The boys sat the bags down, and they exploded minutes later. They had no bag screening for people coming into the event, and the dogs wouldn't have had time to find them after they'd been put in place.
You guys need to stop listening to Glenn Beck and Alex Jones. I really worry about your mental health. Try looking at situations logically and analytically. Are set ups possible in the world? Sure, but there's a difference between remotely possible and remotely probable. Your theory is about as improbable as it gets.
As for the rest, Tim McVeigh openly admitted that he did the Oklahoma City bombing, and Terry Nichols testified against him. There was a ton of evidence linking them to the crime. If there was another person on top of Tim McVeigh that committed the crime (possible but not probable), then he got away with it because McVeigh didn't talk about him and there was no evidence, but that doesn't mean the government was involved--it would have been another anti-government nut.
What you're proposing is not only silly, but insane.
Last edited by mb1547; 04-20-2013 at 06:43 PM..
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System won't let me rep you again right now.
Profiling: Better Terms
