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Well, all I can say is Ron Paul is a libertarian, he was on the presidential ticket for the Libertarian Party, and he didn't get very far with the Republican Party. They always figured he was a little bit kooky. His son seems to have more smarts then his dad.
His son knows how the system works and is willing to play along to get things accomplished. Dad is/was stuck to a value system of honesty and integrity, not a good quality when your playing in a "den of thieves".
Bingo! I've thought the same thing for a while now. Libertarians belong in the Democratic Party more than the Republican in this day and age. I find it hard to square the strange fascination current American Libertarians have with the neo-confederate fringe of the US South and the Republican Party. If anything, Libertarians should get nauseous at the religious crazies within the Republican Party. But no, it ain't actually about the liberty of a gay man to marry another, or a women to choose what she wants to do with her own body. For the current day Libertarians, all it has to do with is how much money the Fed Govt is taking out of their pay check. They are nothing but rebranded hard right republicans.
I assure you that as a Libertarian, I have no fascination with neo-confederates from the south, or what resembles today's Republican Party and their tendencies to attract and pander to every bible thumping crazy! Oh, and I'm Christian. So yes it is about liberty. Understand this... I do NOT care what 2 people of the same sex do! Marriage should be completely removed from the government, PERIOD!!!! As for abortion, whether I entirely agree with it or not, it is STILL the woman's choice, and that is between her and our CREATOR! As far as your premise that Libertarians only care about what is coming out of their paycheck. Well, why the Hell shouldn't we? Shouldn't you? Listen, I've been paying into SS since I was 16, because I'm forced to do so! Now, they're telling me that when it comes time for me to retire, it may not be there! If it's not going to be there, then give me my money back, and let me invest it the way that I see fit.
Furthermore, spending your way out of debt is not the way to reduce debt! If your income is cut due to your hours at work being cut, or there is a job loss, then you most certainly don't incur more debt, because by doing so is the quickest way to end up on the street with your family living in a cardboard box!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonarchist
I lost respect for the Libertarian Party when I found it unable to support Ron Paul for president, because he wasn't running under the Libertarian flag.
Libertarians are phony when they put their party before their principles - or the way I see it, more support for the group than the individual.
More support for the group than the objective.
They were unable to recognize Ron Paul as an individual, and Ron Paul was the only individual in the race.
Ron Paul versus Barack Obama - landslide vote-victory for Ron Paul - if not assassinated before inauguration. And, if all the votes were counted legally, which is impossible.
It's too bad that Ron Paul didn't run as a Libertarian. I voted for him in the primary, and still support what he stands for, but I ended up voting for Gary Johnson. Again, I love Ron Paul's message, and honesty, but his age is becoming a factor, whereas Johnson still has a lot more room. If he runs again in 2016 I will vote that way again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostrider275452
His son knows how the system works and is willing to play along to get things accomplished. Dad is/was stuck to a value system of honesty and integrity, not a good quality when your playing in a "den of thieves".
I'm not quite sold on his son. Now that could potentially change, but as it stands Johnson is who I'm leaning toward in 2016. At any rate, I'll take the value system of honesty and integrity any day.
After they stuffed a once Democrat, with Progressive values, in front of the Republicans in 2008 and said vote for this guy...... the Republican party has had a battle from within.
The people that are the voters saw it first hand. 2010 Mid Terms happened...... Outted in many primaries, the Republican party started to cull the Good `ol Boys, with the voice of the peoples vote.
Then the they did it again with a self admitted and I quote, " I'm a PROGRESSIVE Republican, and more good `ol Boys didn't make it past the primaries.
2012 saw many States turn GOP offices, to a more Constitutional view of the office, putting the career GOP hacks in the states, out to pasture.
We have always wondered, why we always got the same thing, no matter which party held the control.
Both party's evolved into the same thing... Progressive, with the Constitution standing in the way of their grand plans for a One World Order.
Now we have those standing up for the Constitution, the very chains the founders of this nation placed on the federal government so WE THE PEOPLE remained free with Liberty for ALL, gaining ground within the party that once stood for individual freedom. The blowback from the Progressives in both parties is telling us we are on the right track.
That sounds good and all -- but what I see is more of the same.
I don't think the people you're talking about are truly libertarian. They are just libertarian when it is convenient for them.
Libertarians would be outraged at our highly centralized banking system, and they'd be working with liberals, at least temporarily, to prevent large firms from rigging the markets. Libertarians would be advocates of legalizing marijuana, for example.
In reality these people you're talking about are just garden variety social conservatives, old people, et cetera, who want to preserve their slice of the pie. They're not libertarian, they're not about free markets, they're about protecting the benefits THEY get from government.
I doubt that the right-wing religious reactionaries are going to stand for being marginalized in what they feel is "their own party". I predict that the GOP will remain the home of both egoistic avarice and superstitious dogmatism for many years to come.
What many people do not realize, Reagan bordered on being a libertarian. No, he was a staunch Republican and many who see the Libertarian side are as well, but we are becoming more open to states rights, social issues being addressed more openly and mainly remaining conservative when it comes to fiscal issues and protecting our country. I don't think the evangelical attitudes are at the front of the GOP as much as liberals would like to think. Yes, we want to see Christ in Christmas, we see nothing wrong with a moment of silence in public schools each morning or a silent prayer before a school event, but we are not trying to push our views down the throats of others. That being said, more and more Republicans are thinking Libertarian. The Libertarian views on world issues might be one of the biggest differences between them and true conservatives.
Does this mean the party itself will soon be in the front and the Republican party dead? Absolutely no, but the Libertarian views, in some instances will soon be taken more seriously I think.
You say, the government is serving us: how, by giving away all our money and trying to control our lives? Is that how they serve us?
What many people do not realize, Reagan bordered on being a libertarian. No, he was a staunch Republican and many who see the Libertarian side are as well, but we are becoming more open to states rights, social issues being addressed more openly and mainly remaining conservative when it comes to fiscal issues and protecting our country. I don't think the evangelical attitudes are at the front of the GOP as much as liberals would like to think. Yes, we want to see Christ in Christmas, we see nothing wrong with a moment of silence in public schools each morning or a silent prayer before a school event, but we are not trying to push our views down the throats of others. That being said, more and more Republicans are thinking Libertarian. The Libertarian views on world issues might be one of the biggest differences between them and true conservatives.
Does this mean the party itself will soon be in the front and the Republican party dead? Absolutely no, but the Libertarian views, in some instances will soon be taken more seriously I think.
You say, the government is serving us: how, by giving away all our money and trying to control our lives? Is that how they serve us?
While our views may differ a bit, your post was well put together, and deserves a rep.
Why don't those who are espousing egoistic greed-mongering rhetoric make the states' rights-driven arguments against DOMA? Answer: Because states' rights is a red herring: All they care about is money -- their own comfort and luxury.
I assure you that as a Libertarian, I have no fascination with neo-confederates from the south, or what resembles today's Republican Party and their tendencies to attract and pander to every bible thumping crazy! Oh, and I'm Christian. So yes it is about liberty. Understand this... I do NOT care what 2 people of the same sex do! Marriage should be completely removed from the government, PERIOD!!!! As for abortion, whether I entirely agree with it or not, it is STILL the woman's choice, and that is between her and our CREATOR! As far as your premise that Libertarians only care about what is coming out of their paycheck. Well, why the Hell shouldn't we? Shouldn't you? Listen, I've been paying into SS since I was 16, because I'm forced to do so! Now, they're telling me that when it comes time for me to retire, it may not be there! If it's not going to be there, then give me my money back, and let me invest it the way that I see fit.
Furthermore, spending your way out of debt is not the way to reduce debt! If your income is cut due to your hours at work being cut, or there is a job loss, then you most certainly don't incur more debt, because by doing so is the quickest way to end up on the street with your family living in a cardboard box!!!
It's too bad that Ron Paul didn't run as a Libertarian. I voted for him in the primary, and still support what he stands for, but I ended up voting for Gary Johnson. Again, I love Ron Paul's message, and honesty, but his age is becoming a factor, whereas Johnson still has a lot more room. If he runs again in 2016 I will vote that way again.
I'm not quite sold on his son. Now that could potentially change, but as it stands Johnson is who I'm leaning toward in 2016. At any rate, I'll take the value system of honesty and integrity any day.
I like Johnson also, but the way things are set up, he does not stand a chance (very sad). Give Rand a chance, he knows how the system works and has to play along to have a chance to win. He will be fine.
1) Libertarianism is an ideology and not a system of government. Just like liberalism isn't a system of government and neither is conservatism.
2) Many of those policies have in fact been attempted by various governments to varying extents with mostly successful results. Examples include the drug policy of the Netherlands (not 100% libertarian but closer than most other countries) or the private retirement plans of Chile or the deregulation of various industries in New Zealand and Canada in the 80s and 90s (once again, not 100% libertarian, but close enough and with successful results).
3) There is one major flaw in libertarianism. The type of people who actively seek out power tend not to be libertarian. In fact, they usually seem more interested in wielding their existing power and a lot of libertarians aren't that type pretty much by definition. Some for every politician who doesn't really want to force other people to do things there are dozens who do. To quote Nineteen Eighty-Four "Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship... The object of power is power."
4) You are really going to say since Totalitarian Fascism, Totalitarian Communism, and Theocracy have been attempted by numerous countries that they are superior to Libertarianism? Wow. That says a lot more about the core of your beliefs than it does about mine. Do you really believe that a libertarian-run country would be worse off than North Korea? Do you really believe that a libertarian-run nation would be worse off than Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge? Do you really believe that a libertarian-run nation would lead to a worse economy than Zimbabwe (or even Greece for that matter)? With your line of thinking we would never evolved past despotism. "Oh, you want to bring republics and democracy back? You mean those things that haven't been practiced since the Roman Republic and Ancient Athens?"
Libertarianism appears to be an oxymoron. For one cannot legislate sovereign prerogatives, nor preserve liberties, when the exercise of political liberty requires their surrender.
A nonpolitical non citizen American retains his sovereignty, freedom and independence, and is "free" of the regulatory restraints of government. As long as he does not trespass upon another, he is left alone.
On the other hand, if Libertarians want the privileges of political liberty without accepting the burdens of civic duty, then they are opposed to the republican form of government.
Libertarians cannot succeed. For either one is a sovereign, served by government. Or one is a subject and servant of the government. You cannot participate in the democratic form as a Libertarian without surrendering one’s rights in exchange for political liberties.
LIBERTARIAN GOALS ARE UNATTAINABLE
If you look at the Libertarian Platform through the eyes of the "Republican Form", where the sovereign people exercise natural and personal liberty, while not burdened with the socialist impositions nor the civic duties of the subject citizens, it's a fait accompli... But you cannot restore your status in the republican form of government, by participation in the democratic form. Nor can you restore surrendered rights by giving consent to their surrender (as a prerequisite for being a "Libertarian" voter). So the Libertarian platform is an impossible goal for Libertarians to achieve by voting Libertarian.
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So yes it is about liberty. Understand this... I do NOT care what 2 people of the same sex do! Marriage should be completely removed from the government, PERIOD!!!! As for abortion, whether I entirely agree with it or not, it is STILL the woman's choice, and that is between her and our CREATOR! As far as your premise that Libertarians only care about what is coming out of their paycheck. Well, why the Hell shouldn't we? Shouldn't you? Listen, I've been paying into SS since I was 16, because I'm forced to do so! Now, they're telling me that when it comes time for me to retire, it may not be there! If it's not going to be there, then give me my money back, and let me invest it the way that I see fit. 
Answer: Because states' rights is a red herring: All they care about is money -- their own comfort and luxury.
