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Most feminists I have met hold mediocre positions or are in the arts, making little money and doing what they want to do because they can.
Those I know who are making big bucks (surgeons, VP's, CFO's) are far from feminists. They work long hours and still take care of the kids, run errands, pack lunches, make dinner etc.
Common misconception amongst those uninformed.
WTH? What exactly do you think feminism is?
Feminism is about having CHOICES--being able to choose what's right for you and your family, vs. being stuck in rigid roles because of gender. If you want to stay home and be a full time mom (I did when my kids were small) that's great, but if you want to climb the corporate ladder instead, or move back and forth between staying home and working depending on the needs of your family, that should be great too. I went to college in the 70s when the very first wave of women were hitting grad schools. At that point it was fighting for the right to have a professional career at all if you wanted one vs. being a social outcast if you weren't married by 22 and raising babies. Now you can do both--career and marriage/family. That's a good thing. Everyone should have the right to decide what's best for their family vs. filling a one size fits all role. Just about every professional woman I know would agree with that statement. That's what a feminist believes.
What on earth makes you think that a MOTHER doing the jobs that parents have to do to care for children, can't be a feminist too? I have 5 kids and a husband, and at my house, everyone pitches in. Sometimes I cook, sometimes my husband cooks, and now that the boys are teens they all do their own laundry. Everybody has household cleaning chores and the boys do all the yard work. What we don't have time to do ourselves, we pay someone to do. It works for us. If my husband couldn't cook, then I'd probably do the cooking and he'd pick up other jobs that I do now. We take turns running with kids. It WORKS for us. That's what feminism is--having the freedom to do what WORKS vs. what society thinks you should do.
I think lots of these men who expect their wives to wait on them hand and foot PLUS work are lazy bums. There's no excuse for it.
People often underestimate the labor involved in having children. Once the children are here it's too late. Early on in the marriage the woman may not mind doing all the housework or opt out because there won't be much with two people in the home. Have a few kids and the work-load multiplies exponentially. If the terms of the marriage are not re-negotiated one party will build resentment which leads to marital discord. I guess it's flightiness or inflexibility depending on your view-point.
You are correct when you write about childless marriages. In that case you can pretty much live and let live and since both people are grown-ups it will work out.
Why aren't the kids helping? From the time I was young I helped with mowing the lawn, snow shovling, dishes, sweeping, taking out the trash, etc... as did my younger sister. Do kids not do chores nowadays or is it considered child abuse? Or do they not have time in between the 1000 activities they all seem to be enrolled in?
While my mother was not the breadwinner, she worked 70 hr weeks and made/makes over 150k a year. She still believes it is her job as a wife/mother/women to clean the house, do the laundry, make dinner etc. She also helps care for my father's elderly father who lives with my parents. She thinks it is her responsibility to make sure he is well cared for. All while working 6 12hr night shifts a week.
Eh, my fiancee and I earn the same thing, and we both do the chores together, or cover for the other when the other one is busy doing something. Really, no big deal. Who really keeps track?
I bolded what I think is a very valid point. Most (not all) men just view things differently than women do in regards to home decoration, organization, cleanliness, etc.... Women in general care more about appearances and what other people think "what is your mom gonna think if she sees those curtians!" or "the neighbors have a nicer deck than we do!". Men generally don't care. Doesn't make either of us bad peopel it's just how things are.
I can tell you from personal experience there is a HUGE difference between myself and my GF (who I live with and plan on marrying). I'm relatively clean and neat, she is OCD. I could care less about decor, she wants to move things around constantly "lets switch the bedroom and office" then "OK lets move it back" Men are generally content, women never are. The project list never, EVER ends. does it make our place nicer? Absolutely! Do I appreciate it and love her for some of her ideas he has? Yes, of course! That being said, housework is probably the biggest point of contention between us. In her eyes everything must be done NOW. I just don't have the same sense of urgency.
I agree, I'd say this is typical. And yes, this is the point I'm trying to get across.
Most feminists I have met hold mediocre positions or are in the arts, making little money and doing what they want to do because they can.
Those I know who are making big bucks (surgeons, VP's, CFO's) are far from feminists. They work long hours and still take care of the kids, run errands, pack lunches, make dinner etc.
Common misconception amongst those uninformed.
So, you're saying that being knowledgeable of your opinion makes a person informed? That's a new one. With that said, most people I've come across who take issue with women's rights tend to be lack luster life performers themselves.
I bolded what I think is a very valid point. Most (not all) men just view things differently than women do in regards to home decoration, organization, cleanliness, etc.... Women in general care more about appearances and what other people think "what is your mom gonna think if she sees those curtians!" or "the neighbors have a nicer deck than we do!". Men generally don't care. Doesn't make either of us bad peopel it's just how things are.
I can tell you from personal experience there is a HUGE difference between myself and my GF (who I live with and plan on marrying). I'm relatively clean and neat, she is OCD. I could care less about decor, she wants to move things around constantly "lets switch the bedroom and office" then "OK lets move it back" Men are generally content, women never are. The project list never, EVER ends. does it make our place nicer? Absolutely! Do I appreciate it and love her for some of her ideas he has? Yes, of course! That being said, housework is probably the biggest point of contention between us. In her eyes everything must be done NOW. I just don't have the same sense of urgency.
While what you say is true IMO that is not the issue in these situations. The issue is that some men (the ones the topic is about) believe that it is a woman's job to take care of all the domestic chores plus children regardless if she earns a pay check or not and he feels his only duty is to earn a paycheck maybe take the trash out once a week and mow the lawn if they have one and "babysit" his kids occasionally. This puts a much greater overall burden on the wife.
The issue isnt that women dont approve of the way their husband swept the floor or cleaned the bathroom but that they NEVER DO IT. Now that more and more women are earning equal to or more than their husbands fewer and fewer are putting up with the disparity in duties because they no longer have to.
Eh, my fiancee and I earn the same thing, and we both do the chores together, or cover for the other when the other one is busy doing something. Really, no big deal. Who really keeps track?
People who earn the same thing but only one does all the chores while the other never pitches in to cover the other.
I was sticking to the topic. The article is about breadwinner wives and the husbands who aren't comfortable in that role. If the article was about the general division of household chores I would have addressed that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubyanumberone
Why aren't the kids helping? From the time I was young I helped with mowing the lawn, snow shovling, dishes, sweeping, taking out the trash, etc... as did my younger sister. Do kids not do chores nowadays or is it considered child abuse? Or do they not have time in between the 1000 activities they all seem to be enrolled in?
Last edited by Jasper03; 06-04-2013 at 08:48 AM..
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