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But don't you think that having massive medical bills because of illness when you have no medical coverage and no job is likely to increase the chance of bankruptcy just a bit - just a little bit - just a tiny little bit? Which would you rather be - unemployed, or unemployed with huge medical bills? Somehow I tend to think that you'd rather just be unemployed. If you really think the two situations are equal (rather than just refusing to admit you are wrong) then you're REALLY confused.
Unemployment often leads to bankruptcy. What about this is confusing to you?
I don't know about you, but I lived in England for many years and watched people...families...stagger under the weight of bills brought on by a serious illness. I even know a person who had to declare bankruptcy after developing cancer...on the other hand, I personally do not know anyone in the US who even lost their insurance after cancer, let alone went bankrupt. I'm sure it happens, but if it was THAT common...surely I'd know someone it had happened to.
Even with our mean, nasty, non-free healthcare...we still have higher overall cancer survival rates than the following countries:
Iceland, Sweden, Belgium, Finland, Switzerland, Italy, spain, Germany, Norway, the Netherlands, Austria, Malta, Slovenia, the United Kingdom, Ireland, the Czech Republic, and Poland.
In surveys for male and female cancer survival rates, the USA came out on top in both surveys. The figures did not include France.
Personally I wouldn't want to see us slip down that league table. That would mean we're regressing instead of progressing. I'm wondering how we can introduce universal access and still maintain our great cancer survival rates.
"Families are paying more and more for health insurance that covers them less and less," says Elizabeth Warren, a Harvard professor and co-author of a recent study of bankruptcy filings in five states. The study concluded that medical bills contributed to half of all personal bankruptcies.
The bills, coupled with a low savings rate for most American families, tip about 1 million into bankruptcy each year, Warren says. The average out-of-pocket medical debt for those who filed is about $12,000, and 68% had health insurance at the time of their bankruptcy filing.
A recent report by the Center for Studying Health System Change found that the proportion of low-income, chronically ill patients who were insured but still spent more than 5% of their income on health costs rose from 28% to 42% from 2001 to 2003. The study defined low income as being below 200% of the poverty line, or about $36,800 for a family of four in 2003.
"Bankruptcy is just the tip of the iceberg: 29 million Americans are in medical debt," says Jennifer Edwards of the Commonwealth Fund, a private foundation that supports research on health and social issues.
A recent Commonwealth study defined those in medical debt as paying bills to health care providers or having large credit card debt or loans against their homes related to medical costs.
Of those, 70% were insured when they got the health care that put them in debt, and nearly half had used up all or most of their savings, Edwards said.
What's a good system that you think will work in this country?
Personally I think (based on what I've heard/read) the French system is far, far, FAR superior to the UK system...it's also much more expensive. That being said, it's less expensive than what we spend now on healthcare. I'm not intimately familiar with the French system, having only used it one time...in an emergency. So...I can't really say "Yeah, let's get the French system over here" because I wouldn't be able to back that up with anything.
What I'd like to see is some people who are very familiar with the French and German systems to share their knowledge of them with us instead of debating universal care vs status quo. I think it's clear that at some point, the system will have to be overhauled. The question is when, and what will precipitate it? Will we allow it to collapse first, or will we switch to a different system before that happens? Whatever happens, I can guarantee it'll be a massive giveaway to private insurance companies.
I hold up the NHS as an example of what NOT to do, not as an argument against universal care in general. I really wish people would see the difference.
Well, I do know about the german system. It is not perfect, but much preferable IMO to the system here. What most people over here object to is that it is a set % of your salary. I didn't mind that, it was worth it to me to have a reliable, portable health care system and the fact that I never had to worry about going bankrupt, in case my husband or I would be diagnosed with a serious illness. I was able to chose my doctors, waiting times were comparable to here, and not waiting in emergencies. Co-pays for prescription drugs are very low and you only have to pay 10 Euros per quarter year, IF you visit your doctor. No fees for repeat visits. I have heard lots of good things about the french system, also and was hoping someone here could comment on that....
I am also intrested in the health care systems of the scandinavian countries
Even with our mean, nasty, non-free healthcare...we still have higher overall cancer survival rates than the following countries:
Iceland, Sweden, Belgium, Finland, Switzerland, Italy, spain, Germany, Norway, the Netherlands, Austria, Malta, Slovenia, the United Kingdom, Ireland, the Czech Republic, and Poland.
In surveys for male and female cancer survival rates, the USA came out on top in both surveys. The figures did not include France.
Personally I wouldn't want to see us slip down that league table. That would mean we're regressing instead of progressing. I'm wondering how we can introduce universal access and still maintain our great cancer survival rates.
We also have higher cancer rates, period, so it's natural that we would devote more time and effort to helping people survive it. I don't see how switching to a system where everyone has health insurance would make the survival rates go down... if anything it seems like we'd have more people getting screened (with the economic disincentive gone).
Even with our mean, nasty, non-free healthcare...we still have higher overall cancer survival rates than the following countries:
Iceland, Sweden, Belgium, Finland, Switzerland, Italy, spain, Germany, Norway, the Netherlands, Austria, Malta, Slovenia, the United Kingdom, Ireland, the Czech Republic, and Poland.
In surveys for male and female cancer survival rates, the USA came out on top in both surveys. The figures did not include France.
Personally I wouldn't want to see us slip down that league table. That would mean we're regressing instead of progressing. I'm wondering how we can introduce universal access and still maintain our great cancer survival rates.
Most likey this is due to early detection. Strangely enough you can get FREE Mammograms in this country and free pap smears, but then what happens if you are diagnosed with cancer? After 5 years you are considered a "survivor", but what happens when you cancer comes back in the 6the year? I would love to hear an experts opinion on this....
We also have higher cancer rates, period, so it's natural that we would devote more time and effort to helping people survive it. I don't see how switching to a system where everyone has health insurance would make the survival rates go down... if anything it seems like we'd have more people getting screened (with the economic disincentive gone).
Well, you know what they say about drinking a glass of wine each day....
I prefer to save my days up and drink a bottle at a time.
But never alone. Never alone.
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