Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I NEVER said that the 'majority' of blacks are criminals. That's obviously not true. Saying the majority of blacks are criminals would mean that over 50% of 42 million blacks in the US are criminals whichs means ALL black males as well as a good portion of black females would have to be criminals and of course this is not possible.
What I AM saying is that we all know that black males is the demographic that commits the highest amounts of crime, so logically if there are 21 million black males in the US and you guess that maybe 15 million of them are over the age of 10 and under the age of 60, THAT'S the group that you should apply most crime statistics to. And if you do that, then its pretty damn obvious that black males, especially those that are 30 years old or younger cause far more crime and murder than anyone else and it ISN'T EVEN CLOSE.
First I'm still waiting for the links that I asked for because I hate arguing assumptions. I do not know the crime rate of individual black men between the ages of 10-60. Neither of us do and we're having an argument based on a hypothesis. Without that we can not prove the other wrong.
I have a problem with the incrimination of millions based on the actions of a few. I also have a problem with it being made into a racial issue when it's, in my opinion, a problem with the mentality of a few low income people. We already looked at the crime stats, and I explained them to you. Those crime stats include men, women, children, and seniors of all ages. You can not excluded half the black population that may have been included in those crime stats and then go on to assume that black men committed most of those crimes just so you can use it as a validation to your hypothesis. Those crime stats also include things like Suspicion, Curfew and loitering law violations, Vagrancy, "All other offenses", which aren't really worth mentioning. Then when you take the fact that the FBI crime statistics does NOT show individual arrest, so if 100 black men were each charged with 10 crimes, it would add 1,000 arrest to that list. The actual number of individual black men out of the, hypothetical, 15 million black men that committed the few or serious crimes isn't anywhere near what you're suggesting.
It's a fact that a few black people committed 50% of the crime, but it's not a fact that it's a problem with black men or the black race as a whole, or that a significant amount of the 40 million blacks or the ,hypothetical, 14 million black men that are committing most of the violent/serous crimes in America. It's only a small fraction.
First I'm still waiting for the links that I asked for because I hate arguing assumptions. I do not know the crime rate of individual black men between the ages of 10-60. Neither of us do and we're having an argument based on a hypothesis. Without that we can not prove the other wrong.
Can you stop being purposefully ignorant and just use common sense for a minute?
When's the last time:
- there was a crime story involving a black senior? - hardly ever
- there was a crime involving a black child 12 or under? - rarely
- there was a crime involving older black women? - somewhat frequent at most
- there was a crime involving young black women? - somewhat often
- there was a crime involving black males? - ALL THE TIME
IE if you ever bothered to watch the news or go on the internet and read any type of crime stories, you would obviously see that the trend is that black males are involved in the VAST MAJORITY of crimes that happen to involve blacks, especially violent crimes and murders.
Are you going to dispute this and say this is wrong? That black males ARE NOT the major perpetrators of crime when it involves a black person in an incident? Is this what you're honestly trying to say with a straight face? Yes or no?
Quote:
I have a problem with the incrimination of millions based on the actions of a few. I also have a problem with it being made into a racial issue when it's, in my opinion, a problem with the mentality of a few low income people. We already looked at the crime stats, and I explained them to you. Those crime stats include men, women, children, and seniors of all ages. You can not excluded half the black population that may have been included in those crime stats and then go on to assume that black men committed most of those crimes just so you can use it as a validation to your hypothesis. Those crime stats also include things like Suspicion, Curfew and loitering law violations, Vagrancy, "All other offenses", which aren't really worth mentioning. Then when you take the fact that the FBI crime statistics does NOT show individual arrest, so if 100 black men were each charged with 10 crimes, it would add 1,000 arrest to that list. The actual number of individual black men out of the, hypothetical, 15 million black men that committed the few or serious crimes isn't anywhere near what you're suggesting.
It's a fact that a few black people committed 50% of the crime, but it's not a fact that it's a problem with black men or the black race as a whole, or that a significant amount of the 40 million blacks or the ,hypothetical, 14 million black men that are committing most of the violent/serous crimes in America. It's only a small fraction.
Do you want to know what 'the actions of a few' really looks like? Just look at that table again, but this time at the Asian or Pacific Islander column. THAT is what I consider an actual 'the actions of a few'. 18+ million Asians living in the US and all combined they're STILL below 100,000 in total arrests. Blacks are barely 2.3 times the population of Asians, yet the difference in crime rates between them are INSANELY MASSIVE.
And one category you CANNOT HIDE FROM is the murder offender rate:
42 million blacks somehow outmurder 220 million whites by at least 700 and probably much more if you include a good portion of the unknown category. Asian murders are so low they don't even get their own column. This you cannot explain away.
Also one last thing. I look at Asian crime stats on that table and you can safely say the overwhelming majority are committed by Asian males. I look at white crime stats on that table and you can safely say the overwhelming majority are committed by white males and to a lesser degree white females and you can largely exclude white children and seniors.
If you really still want to include the entire black population when looking at crime statistics, then in a way it makes things look EVEN MORE SAD AND MORE WORSE. And by that I mean are blacks so screwed up as a race that viturally no demographic can be safely excluded from crime statistics? Have blacks gone so far into the toilet that any black person of any age group is now capable of committing a significant amount of crime that you would have to include them in crime stats? Because that's what you're saying when you insist crime stats MUST include all of black population.
Listen, my beef isn't with so much with the statistics. My beef is the way I will be treated as a result. It is the way the rest of the young male Black population will be treated as a result. Those statistics are comprised of individuals who commit those crimes. Those statistics represent those who commit them, and more or less, the underclass segment of the Black population. Those statistics do not represent me. I have nothing to do with that. Most of the time I don't even think of those statistics unless other people bring it up. I can't help that some Black persons have committed crimes. I don't even live in the ghetto(never was raised in it).
As an individualist, it disgusts me that I as a young Black man will be watched closer than anyone else. If a Black man has committed a crime, that Black person should take responsibility, not me. I haven't told said person "commit crimes". Most likely, I haven't even met said person. If I haven't done anything wrong, I shouldn't suffer for someone else's stupidity. Let that said person do the time in prison. You do the crime, you do the time. If you haven't done any crimes, then you should not be treated like a criminal.
And for those who say Blacks should call it out more, well, I have this to say. There are Black people calling this mess out, with the crime and other issues. Guess what? The people who do listen are the ones who have been doing what they were suppose to do in the first place. Those who don't listen, who basically lambaste those who call it out, are the ones who would have never listened. Mayor Michael Nutter spoke directly to Black people, calling the teenagers out who were causing so much trouble. Alot of those teenagers never listened, probably looking at him as some kind of relic at best. There are those calling this behavior out. Sadly, the persons being called out are not listening, and probably never will listen. I should know because I've pulled a few Black persons aside and called them out on their unbecoming behavior. Some of those said persons basically blew me off. My father has tried with a relative of his. Said relative(who has been to prison a few times) hasn't listened.
Generally, my message is this. I have nothing to do with what goes on among criminals who happen to be Black. I'm not them.
Listen, my beef isn't with so much with the statistics. My beef is the way I will be treated as a result. It is the way the rest of the young male Black population will be treated as a result. Those statistics are comprised of individuals who commit those crimes. Those statistics represent those who commit them, and more or less, the underclass segment of the Black population. Those statistics do not represent me. I have nothing to do with that. Most of the time I don't even think of those statistics unless other people bring it up. I can't help that some Black persons have committed crimes. I don't even live in the ghetto(never was raised in it).
As an individualist, it disgusts me that I as a young Black man will be watched closer than anyone else. If a Black man has committed a crime, that Black person should take responsibility, not me. I haven't told said person "commit crimes". Most likely, I haven't even met said person. If I haven't done anything wrong, I shouldn't suffer for someone else's stupidity. Let that said person do the time in prison. You do the crime, you do the time. If you haven't done any crimes, then you should not be treated like a criminal.
Its interesting how when it comes to crime, blacks want to distance themselves from it and say 'I don't commit crime so black crime doesn't involve me'. That's fine.
But then why is it time and again blacks bring up the past as a reason as to why they commit crime and specifically crime and murder against white people? I can't tell you how many damn times I've heard people use the excuse 'You brought us here, treated us like crap and now you're getting payback' or some variation of this when trying to explain black crime.
Why is it that I, a white male who has never owned a slave or oppressed them in any way, have to deal with black crime in my city and in my country? Why do people continue to excuse this behavior by saying the slavery and oppression of blacks that happened decades and centuries ago that never involved me, my parents or grandparents or pretty much all whites living today is still somehow OUR burden and therefore we have to live with black crime and violence? Why do blacks continually bring up the past which has no relevance to whites in 2013 and still blame us all for something we never did?
Tell me why non-blacks have to look at blacks as individuals when it comes to crime, but blacks can look at whites as a whole to this day for owning them as slaves so many decades ago even though none of us had anything to do with the past? How is this fair?
Its interesting how when it comes to crime, blacks want to distance themselves from it and say 'I don't commit crime so black crime doesn't involve me'. That's fine.
But then why is it time and again blacks bring up the past as a reason as to why they commit crime and specifically crime and murder against white people? I can't tell you how many damn times I've heard people use the excuse 'You brought us here, treated us like crap and now you're getting payback' or some variation of this when trying to explain black crime.
Why is it that I, a white male who has never owned a slave or oppressed them in any way, have to deal with black crime in my city and in my country? Why do people continue to excuse this behavior by saying the slavery and oppression of blacks that happened decades and centuries ago that never involved me, my parents or grandparents or pretty much all whites living today is still somehow OUR burden and therefore we have to live with black crime and violence? Why do blacks continually bring up the past which has no relevance to whites in 2013 and still blame us all for something we never did?
Tell me why non-blacks have to look at blacks as individuals when it comes to crime, but blacks can look at whites as a whole to this day for owning them as slaves so many decades ago even though none of us had anything to do with the past? How is this fair?
If you really thought about what you typed, you'd figure out your own answer.
If you think the issue has to do with race, go to Russia, or time warp back to 1930's Chicago or turn of Century New York.
If your wanting to know why our crime rates are so high in this country, well, look at what historically has caused high crime rates.
Its interesting how when it comes to crime, blacks want to distance themselves from it and say 'I don't commit crime so black crime doesn't involve me'. That's fine.
But then why is it time and again blacks bring up the past as a reason as to why they commit crime and specifically crime and murder against white people? I can't tell you how many damn times I've heard people use the excuse 'You brought us here, treated us like crap and now you're getting payback' or some variation of this when trying to explain black crime.
Why is it that I, a white male who has never owned a slave or oppressed them in any way, have to deal with black crime in my city and in my country? Why do people continue to excuse this behavior by saying the slavery and oppression of blacks that happened decades and centuries ago that never involved me, my parents or grandparents or pretty much all whites living today is still somehow OUR burden and therefore we have to live with black crime and violence? Why do blacks continually bring up the past which has no relevance to whites in 2013 and still blame us all for something we never did?
Tell me why non-blacks have to look at blacks as individuals when it comes to crime, but blacks can look at whites as a whole to this day for owning them as slaves so many decades ago even though none of us had anything to do with the past? How is this fair?
Do you not deal with white crime in "your" city and in "your" country? How do you feel about it?
*And just to note, rampant oppression from a mere 50 years ago is nothing to brush aside. Many of those people are living today. Have you not learned about life from your parents/grandparents? If you were born in an age of extreme discrimination (and, in many cases, barred from higher education) what type of life lessons do you think those people passed down to their children?
Also, LOTS of folks are history buffs. Do you just want to avoid the "icky" parts?
Last edited by ChocLot; 09-17-2013 at 09:02 AM..
Reason: Grammar fix
If you really thought about what you typed, you'd figure out your own answer.
If you think the issue has to do with race, go to Russia, or time warp back to 1930's Chicago or turn of Century New York.
If your wanting to know why our crime rates are so high in this country, well, look at what historically has caused high crime rates.
Folks can't seem to grasp it. Blacks aren't just out killing people for no cause. No matter how whacked their reasoning, there is a reason. And until we do something about the drug laws in this country, things will not change.
There was rampant violence surrounding Prohibition that evaporated with legalization. The problem is that there is no incentive to dealing with the drug war when the victims are brown.
Its interesting how when it comes to crime, blacks want to distance themselves from it and say 'I don't commit crime so black crime doesn't involve me'. That's fine.
But then why is it time and again blacks bring up the past as a reason as to why they commit crime and specifically crime and murder against white people? I can't tell you how many damn times I've heard people use the excuse 'You brought us here, treated us like crap and now you're getting payback' or some variation of this when trying to explain black crime.
Why is it that I, a white male who has never owned a slave or oppressed them in any way, have to deal with black crime in my city and in my country? Why do people continue to excuse this behavior by saying the slavery and oppression of blacks that happened decades and centuries ago that never involved me, my parents or grandparents or pretty much all whites living today is still somehow OUR burden and therefore we have to live with black crime and violence? Why do blacks continually bring up the past which has no relevance to whites in 2013 and still blame us all for something we never did?
Tell me why non-blacks have to look at blacks as individuals when it comes to crime, but blacks can look at whites as a whole to this day for owning them as slaves so many decades ago even though none of us had anything to do with the past? How is this fair?
Of course Blacks wanted to distance themselves from it. So do people of every other ethnicity. Why should it be "a special case" when it comes to Blacks? Why can't we get away from it too?
You as a White person? How about you as a person. How about me as a person. It isn't just you or Whites dealing with it. Blacks deal with this too. Blacks are also leaving major cities to go to the suburbs. You talk as if only Whites are affected by this. Blacks are more likely to live in places where crime rates are high. Blacks get affected by crime alot. I have been affected by it too. I became a victim of black-on-black crime. I got jumped and robbed. It is no coincidence that my father never raised me in the city. He raised me in the suburbs(more like exurbs if you think about it). He did it so his children could be safe.
No one said slavery and oppression involved YOU. And much of what you hear applies to the USA, where the crime is much worse. I say the past is brought up because in some ways it still affects what goes on. Should people use it as an excuse? No. In fact, alot of Black people have managed to thrive despite being discriminated against. And I know many of those persons who have thrived.
Consider this. Blacks aren't looked at as individuals either. Neither side looks at each other as individuals. That is the way this society has been. Whenever someone like Adam Lanza or James Holmes shoots a bunch of people in one place, they are deemed as "mentally ill" or "evil". Nothing is attributed to their race. Whenever a Black person commits murder, it's "because they are Black and that is what Blacks do". There isn't any fairness on either side. However, I would say one major difference is that Blacks are outnumbered, so I would say Blacks get affected by it alot.
Ask yourself this question. Why are drugs in such high demand? Alot of murders within the Black population are drug-related. Despite certain drugs being illegal and carrying heavy prison sentences, people still sell and use drugs.
Do you not deal with white crime in "your" city and in "your" country? How do you feel about it?
And consider this. Considering said person lives in Toronto,Canada, I have to say this. Toronto's crime, well, I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but I am much safer in Toronto than alot of other American cities. Toronto is not a place I would worry about getting shot it. I live 45 minutes from Atlanta. Canada seems much safer.
Quote:
*And just to note, rampant oppression from a mere 50 years ago is nothing to brush aside. Many of those people are living today. Have you not learned about life from your parents/grandparents? If you were born in an age of extreme discrimination (and in many cases was barred from higher education) what type of life lessons do you think those people passed down to their children?
And even more so, many people who were born in that era somehow managed to succeed even with other people laughing in their faces. Alot of people were beaten down from the discrimination, and there were also many who decided to fight back. It would still be crazy to think that the oppression and discrimination didn't have any affects.
Quote:
Also, LOTS of folks are history buffs. Do you just want to avoid the "icky" parts?
Folks can't seem to grasp it. Blacks aren't just out killing people for no cause. No matter how whacked their reasoning, there is a reason. And until we do something about the drug laws in this country, things will not change.
There was rampant violence surrounding Prohibition that evaporated with legalization. The problem is that there is no incentive to dealing with the drug war when the victims are brown.
And in addition, the prison system actually makes alot of money. Considering the demise of America's manufacturing base, it isn't surprising. I'm not saying that a person shouldn't be in prison if a crime has been committed. By all means. You do the crime, you do the time. However, there is something else to look at. There is another reason there hasn't been an incentive to deal with the drug war. Prisons make alot of money from having inmates. It is easier to imprison people than to actually deal with the problem. Prison labor gets used at near-slave wages. Basically, it is cheaper to imprison them and use them for labor than to deal with the issues, and actually try to bring jobs back.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
