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That situation is.........awful. Seriously. You're right, the kids didn't ask to be born into that. I admire your participation in trying to improve their situation, and I'm sure that must be incredibly frustrating.
This is both a rhetorical question, and one directed to you: How do you break a cycle like that?
The cycle was starting to be broken with charter schools.
Parents have to pull their kids out.
That's parents waking up and doing something about it.
What would be left in the public schools are those kids that don't care along with their parents that don't care and you could turn those schools into trade or vocational schools.
You cannot EVER get 100% of your population college educated and working in STEM jobs.
Yet that is the goal of the Dept of Education.
Charter schools/voucher systems is how the cycle can be broken.
The cycle was starting to be broken with charter schools.
Parents have to pull their kids out.
That's parents waking up and doing something about it.
What would be left in the public schools are those kids that don't care along with their parents that don't care and you could turn those schools into trade or vocational schools.
You cannot EVER get 100% of your population college educated and working in STEM jobs.
Yet that is the goal of the Dept of Education.
Charter schools/voucher systems is how the cycle can be broken.
Actually, I meant the cycle of abuse that cometclear was witness to on the reservation.
But you make some good points. I agree -- the push for everyone to go to college is beyond dumb. I have a few family members that NEVER would have made it through college, yet have had very satisfying careers as plumbers, electricians, and the like.
Let me ask you, though -- if all that was left in public schools were the kids who don't care and their parents who don't care, would they care enough to get a trade/vocational education?
I hate to say it, especially as the son of educators, but some people simply are not interested in working towards educating/bettering themselves.
Actually, I meant the cycle of abuse that cometclear was witness to on the reservation.
But you make some good points. I agree -- the push for everyone to go to college is beyond dumb. I have a few family members that NEVER would have made it through college, yet have had very satisfying careers as plumbers, electricians, and the like.
Let me ask you, though -- if all that was left in public schools were the kids who don't care and their parents who don't care, would they care enough to get a trade/vocational education?
I hate to say it, especially as the son of educators, but some people simply are not interested in working towards educating/bettering themselves.
I know and charter schools give the poor who do care a way out.
THAT is breaking the cycle. You have to be happy with what you get and you never can get 100%.
So let the public schools become giant babysitting centers.
At least teach them simple math and literacy in prison like settings.
But at least give the kids whose parents care enough to want to pull them out a chance.
And Holder is seeing that they don't get that chance.
So do I. But we can see that the FedGov thinks otherwise.
LOL.... well if Holder came out and said "humans breath air" I would try to hold my breath...
i confess that is persona anamous (even if I cant spell it)
LOL....
being serious for a second, i really wish the feds would get out of Jindal's way. That guy is smart and has fixed a LOT of broken stuff in Louisiana. given time and no interfearance, that guy will get things fixed.
LOL.... well if Holder came out and said "humans breath air" I would try to hold my breath...
i confess that is persona anamous (even if I cant spell it)
LOL....
being serious for a second, i really wish the feds would get out of Jindal's way. That guy is smart and has fixed a LOT of broken stuff in Louisiana. given time and no interfearance, that guy will get things fixed.
The DOJ is butting into many states that are willing to change for the better and to be more accountable and more independent of Fed $$.
These schools have obviously been in decline for decades, and it will take decades to fix them. Or more likely, since you admit that the solutions would bother many of your fellow lefties, they will never be fixed at all. What would you propose about the students who are in these failing systems right now?
Tell them, sorry, you're going to end up a burger flipper or criminal. You were just born 20 years too early. We're working on it.
I'm sorry, I don't buy that. I have seen business leaders, coaches, teachers and others change the culture at organizations quite quickly. The problem is building up public support for the types of changes that need to be made.
A few random things:
1. We need superintendents/administrators who are skilled managers. We don't need people with PhD's in education in these posts. In general, these people will come from the world of business and they will understand how to manage organizations and people. We then need to give these administrators latitude to manage, not to be hamstrung by school boards or endless rules.
2. We need to reduce the amount of incompetent teachers. Most teachers are adequate or better. Those who are not need to be gone. I believe in collective bargaining. I do not believe in work rules that make it an arduous process to fire someone who is blatantly incapable of performing their job. We wouldn't tolerate that if we operated an organization of any sort, and neither should we tolerate it in our schools, particularly those of us who believe in the principle of providing public schools to all.
3. Pay starting teachers amounts that will attract top graduates. Particularly in areas like science and math, these young people understand they can make much more doing something else, and probably with less headaches. You can teach people how to teach. It's more difficult to find people with deep knowledge in the these fields. Research seems to bear out that one of the one or two greatest factors in student learning is the depth of knowledge of the teacher.
4. Have some honest assessments of students made. There is a balance in education that must be made - making well-rounded individuals, but also preparing them for their working lives. That balance tilts different ways with different students. In many of these poor schools, it needs to tilt towards preparing them for work. This means a more technical curriculum for many and apprenticeships/work-to-school in the afternoon. There are perfectly honorable occupations that pay well that do not involve four-year degrees. We have gotten so caught up in measuring success by how many kids go to college, that we have lost sight of this. I might add that we need to apply this to wealthier schools, as well. There are so many parents absolutely incapable/unwilling to do honest assessments of the abilities of their kids and we then end up with universities in which half the kids end up dropping out.
5. Remove kids from general ed. classrooms who don't belong there. This includes kids with severe behavioral problems. This includes kids with cognitive disabilities that put them well behind even average students. With all the bureaucratic crap thrown at teachers these days, all the IEP meetings and all the documentation, making them have to modify/adapt/create entirely separate lesson plans for individual students/small groups of students is unrealistic and hurts the learning of the average and above-average students.
The DOJ is butting into many states that are willing to change for the better and to be more accountable and more independent of Fed $$.
3.5 more years and I hope we can hold out.
amen... and you make a great point here. they are attacking anything that is trying to become independant of Federal $$$$ this government cannot allow that.
I am all for disadvantaged children succeeding. The solution is not shipping some kids off to private schools with insufficient funds for tuition. You'll notice that no one has answered my question about how much each child will receive as a stipend and how long that money will run?
Actually I answered that early on in this thread. The vouchers pay for ALL of their tuition. So saying they get an insufficient stipend is false and the original article says that. That's why I asked you to read it.
That situation is.........awful. Seriously. You're right, the kids didn't ask to be born into that. I admire your participation in trying to improve their situation, and I'm sure that must be incredibly frustrating.
This is both a rhetorical question, and one directed to you: How do you break a cycle like that?
No, I was not at the tribal school, the missus was, which is where I got the skinny, along with local and national newspapers. One of the reasons she could not continue is that she cares and she could not become callous to what was occurring. I told her many times that I would not have made it a month there. My frustration and anger levels would have been too high and I speak my mind when I become frustrated.
Just as getting women educated in third-world countries is what lifts those places into second-world status, much of that applies in places like an Indian reservation or our ghettos. Giving them a future where they aren't having kids and going from abusive man-to-abusive man. It's difficult because so many of these young women have borderline personalities due to the abuse they experienced. I would go so far as to argue that the success of a culture largely hinges on the amount of respect and honor given to females. If it is low, you are more or less sunk.
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