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Old 09-11-2013, 04:00 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
12,287 posts, read 9,832,625 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
Taxes impact the overall economy and the ability for the average person to survive much more than most people realize.

In order to fully appreciate this fact, you first need to realize that direct taxes (federal income tax, social security, state income tax, property tax, sales tax, excise tax, gas tax, utility tax, and the several taxes which are disguised as fees ) are only one part of your overall tax burden.

The other part of your tax burden is indirect taxes. These are taxes you pay without necessarily knowing you are paying them.

These include all the taxes (payroll, property, fuel, etc.) paid by retailers, shippers, distributers, manufacturers, farmers, utilities, and every other business which substantially adds to the cost of items which is ultimately paid by you the end user.

It is estimated that this kind of indirect tax for example adds as much as $10,000 to the price of an average automobile.

Ironically you will then pay sales tax again on that $10,000 of added tax cost.

When you extrapolate this phenomenon to include every product and service you purchase and begin to realize that these indirect taxes have a compounding effect every time a product changes hands, you begin to realize the impact on the economy overall.

By some estimates, more than 65% of every dollar earned by the average person goes to paying some kind of direct or indirect tax.

It is little wonder then, that so many people today struggle to simply survive, and are put in a position of needing to turn to government for charity just to eat.

Government in fact taxes people into poverty, and then in turn makes those same people dependent on government for their basic needs.


Preach on!

Then the governt tries to trick you, saying they will give you some money for whatever reason (a subsidy of some sort) but all they are doing is giving you back your own money that they stole from you.
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Old 09-11-2013, 04:04 PM
 
8,391 posts, read 6,303,147 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter_Sucks View Post
Then why do some of the least taxed areas in the country also have higher than average poverty rates?
Many of the highest taxed areas in this nation are also the most well off. I am not in favor of taxes, taxes, taxes, but conservatives take tax policy from a policy discussion, to a discussion about how the world has to work. conservative opinion about taxation is a faith based belief at this point.
If lower taxes automatically lead to prosperity, then the nations with the lowest tax rates would be the wealthiest, but that is not the case at all.
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Old 09-11-2013, 04:06 PM
 
20,948 posts, read 19,068,895 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter_Sucks View Post
Then why do some of the least taxed areas in the country also have higher than average poverty rates?
Location also matters to some degree.
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Old 09-11-2013, 04:25 PM
 
Location: Casa Grande
87 posts, read 190,749 times
Reputation: 117
As evilnewbie pointed out, to avoid taxes you have to be self-sufficient. I don't think some people really grasp the harsh truth of this otherwise we wouldn't see this come up so frequently on the internet.
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Old 09-11-2013, 05:24 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
12,287 posts, read 9,832,625 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamme73 View Post
Many of the highest taxed areas in this nation are also the most well off. I am not in favor of taxes, taxes, taxes, but conservatives take tax policy from a policy discussion, to a discussion about how the world has to work. conservative opinion about taxation is a faith based belief at this point.
If lower taxes automatically lead to prosperity, then the nations with the lowest tax rates would be the wealthiest, but that is not the case at all.
The Global Race for Lower Corporate Tax Rates | Cato Institute

Why do you think Corporations from all over the world are moving to Irlend? We live in a global economy, we have to be competitive globally.

The US corporate tax rate has become a new cause for companies to move overseas to avoid what is the largest tax burden in the industrialized world. At 35%, the US tax rate on companies and businesses is nearly triple the rates in some places, and well above the tax requirements of countries such as Ireland and Switzerland.

In an expose on March 27th by CBS's 60 Minutes, hundreds of companies, and over $1.1 trillion dollars, are now being kept overseas providing nothing to the US economy due to stringent tax laws and regulations which make it difficult to invest, create new jobs, and find profitability if incorporated in America.

Cisco alone has moved eight different companies to Ireland, where the tax rate is at 12.5%. On top of this, google, Facebook, and several other technical firms employ over 100,000 workers in Ireland, which they might otherwise employ in the US if the tax code was changed or adjusted.

While many companies moved to China, India, and other places around the world for cheaper labor, one of the main reasons for the move offshore was the draconian tax rates the US government imposes on businesses headquartered domestically. In an poll taken in January on the Fair Tax, over 500 companies said they would instantly move back to the United States if this tax structure were implemented in the economy.
US corporate tax rates the primary cause for companies moving overseas - National Finance Examiner | Examiner.com
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Old 09-11-2013, 05:28 PM
 
14,917 posts, read 13,113,527 times
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Don't you also have to consider the positive economic impact of taxes?
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Old 09-11-2013, 05:37 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
12,287 posts, read 9,832,625 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hammertime33 View Post
Don't you also have to consider the positive economic impact of taxes?
Like what? How is a dollars spent by a politician worth more than a dollar spent by a person?
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Old 09-11-2013, 05:58 PM
 
1,980 posts, read 3,776,170 times
Reputation: 1600
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamme73 View Post
Many of the highest taxed areas in this nation are also the most well off. I am not in favor of taxes, taxes, taxes, but conservatives take tax policy from a policy discussion, to a discussion about how the world has to work. conservative opinion about taxation is a faith based belief at this point.
There is concrete repeated historical precedent for their beliefs on this topic. Just take a look at states with high cigarette taxes that raise them: tax revenues go down as blackmarket and out of state sales increase.



It is the high tax backers that are the religious zealots on this issue. HIGH TAXES = LESS GOVT. REVENUES. High taxes chase away wealth, economic growth, and encourage black markets and tax evasion.


Quote:
If lower taxes automatically lead to prosperity, then the nations with the lowest tax rates would be the wealthiest, but that is not the case at all.
It takes more than a fair and thrifty tax code to generate prosperity. Without certain rights, protections, and a fair judicial system, even the best tax system in the world is doomed to fail.
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Old 09-11-2013, 06:00 PM
 
1,980 posts, read 3,776,170 times
Reputation: 1600
Quote:
Originally Posted by hammertime33 View Post
Don't you also have to consider the positive economic impact of taxes?
Taxes or the things tax revenues pay for? If it is the latter, then high taxes are bad idea as it decreases govt. revenues.
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Old 09-11-2013, 06:07 PM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,795 posts, read 7,295,627 times
Reputation: 5194
Quote:
Originally Posted by le roi View Post
Taxes impact the overall economy and the ability for the average person to survive much less than most people realize. The real driving force in the economy is the Federal Reserve lending money into existence.
While I am 100% against the existence of the Federal Reserve, that is a separate issue and off topic here.
That being said, you are very much mistaken about the impact of taxes on the economy and the standard of living of the people.
As I stated before, the impact of indirect taxes drives up the costs of everything we purchase to a great extent.



Quote:
Originally Posted by le roi View Post
Any idiot can make up an estimate. By some estimates, the world is going to meet its fiery end next Tuesday.
Any idiot can also make a pointless vague generalization. It only shows they have not given the subject proper thought.

The fact is there is no set formula to compute the effect of indirect taxes on product and service costs because it changes with every service or product.

What we do know however is every time a product goes from a manufacturer, to a shipper, to a distributer, to a retailer, the effect of taxes on the cost of that item is multiplied 4X. A company which requires more employees will have to shoulder the burden of higher payroll taxes and those costs are passed to customers in higher costs. Utility companies are an example of this.

Those higher costs for utilities are then absorbed by manufacturing companies which use those utilities which add more indirect tax costs on top of the ones they absorb to increase the costs of their products even more.
It does not take a rocket scientist to see how this compounding of taxes adds costs to every product at every step of the supply chain.
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