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Old 10-16-2013, 07:43 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,792 posts, read 13,951,723 times
Reputation: 5661

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockside View Post
Agreed. According to the CCH Standard Federal Tax Reporter, as of 2013, it now takes 73,954 regular 8-1/2" x 11" sheets of paper to explain the complexity of the U.S. federal tax code. WTF??

But politicians love using the tax code to both punish and reward, or even, as the Obama administration did, using the powers of the IRS to derail the Tea Party.

I doubt I'll see significant changes to the tax code in my lifetime. If the last financial crisis couldn't change it, nothing will.
The Obama Administration didn't use the IRS to derail the Tea Baggers. Don't make statements based upon conjecture and not facts.
The Fake Story About the IRS Commissioner and the White House - Garance Franke-Ruta - The Atlantic

So the tax code is long. Complicated things are complicated.
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Old 10-16-2013, 07:50 AM
 
Location: Beautiful Niagara Falls ON.
10,016 posts, read 12,580,750 times
Reputation: 9030
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMORE View Post
While I agree that current deficits need to be decreased further, we need to look at our unfunded liabilities to get a true grasp on how much the US is in trouble. What could be done? I've toyed with the idea of the US operating it's own oil company similar to Saudi Arabia for a while, but now I'm thinking we need to do two things, create a Sovereign Wealth Fund to drill on the federal lands and sell the oil to foreign markets specifically or maybe even sell the oil to oil companies, and we also should begin building a FOREX (foreign reserves) as well specifically targeted at purchasing Chinese bonds in attempt to create a balanced playing field between us two.

I'm not completely sure what type of bonds are available at the moment, but Century, Transportation, War, and Etc bonds should begin to be issued to begin rebuilding infrastructure; personally, I'd love to invest in US bonds out of patriotism.

But anyways, what are your short and long term proposals?
I think your ides about creating sovereign wealth fund is an excellent idea. However, if you think you have seen craziness from the right wingers thus far, you aint seen nothing yet as the saying goes.
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Old 10-16-2013, 07:58 AM
 
Location: NJ
23,561 posts, read 17,232,713 times
Reputation: 17602
Career politicians make lifelong quid pro quo deals. Term limits would help somewhat to break the deals.

We need a culture change and the electorate is not ready to select candidates based on ethics. They tend to fololow the old business addage where, "I hired you because you are like me'. A phoilosophy condemmed on one hand and the rule for many voting districts.

No tax levied with out an expiration date.

Dedicated taxes cannot be used in the general fund.

Eliminate many government programs and seriously address the fraud in the ones that remain.

OP proposal reasonable for sure.
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Old 10-16-2013, 08:16 AM
 
Location: somewhere in the woods
16,880 posts, read 15,201,197 times
Reputation: 5240
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMORE View Post
While I agree that current deficits need to be decreased further, we need to look at our unfunded liabilities to get a true grasp on how much the US is in trouble. What could be done? I've toyed with the idea of the US operating it's own oil company similar to Saudi Arabia for a while, but now I'm thinking we need to do two things, create a Sovereign Wealth Fund to drill on the federal lands and sell the oil to foreign markets specifically or maybe even sell the oil to oil companies, and we also should begin building a FOREX (foreign reserves) as well specifically targeted at purchasing Chinese bonds in attempt to create a balanced playing field between us two.

I'm not completely sure what type of bonds are available at the moment, but Century, Transportation, War, and Etc bonds should begin to be issued to begin rebuilding infrastructure; personally, I'd love to invest in US bonds out of patriotism.

But anyways, what are your short and long term proposals?

just default on the whole mess, then get rid of the fed and hold all CEO's of banks and the bankers of the fed responsible. do it just like Iceland did.
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Old 10-16-2013, 08:23 AM
 
20,728 posts, read 19,367,499 times
Reputation: 8288
Which debt? All the bank credit denominated in sovereign debt or the sovereign debt? And since all bank credit is denominated in sovereign debt and provides all liquidity what do you plan on using as money?

Unless you plan on chaning the current money system paying off the national debt is irrational nonsense.

On a positive note this is the political forum and the appropriate place for crank ideas.
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Old 10-16-2013, 08:44 AM
 
Location: Prepperland
19,029 posts, read 14,209,414 times
Reputation: 16747
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
1. Your above idea is a good one
2. Balanced budget amendment
3. 15% VAT
4. 20% flat income tax
5. 15% flat business tax
6. increase medicare/social security eligibility ages
7. limit food stamps/medicaid to three years of a ten year cycle
8. dump Obamacare
9. earmark 5% of annual revenues for debt reduction
Republican Form:
//www.city-data.com/forum/28808937-post66.html
//www.city-data.com/forum/29755425-post158.html

Apparently few Americans understand the republican form of government and only have experience with the socialist democratic form, in place since 1933.

Point #1 : no government instituted to secure rights can tax rights. It can only tax privileges.
Point #2 : FICA is 100% voluntary.
Point #3 : The debt can never be repaid.

[3] The debt, over 16 T, computes to over 800 billion ounces of gold, stamped into coin. (Dollar bills are IOUs - debt - which cannot "pay debt.").
__Problem #1 : Fort Knox allegedly holds 147.4 million ounces of gold bullion.
__Problem #2 : world wide supply (est) of gold is only 5.6 billion ounces.

Since Congress only has power to coin money (stamp bullion) or borrow money, one must wonder exactly WHAT did Congress borrow to rack up owing 794 billion ounces of gold that do not exist.
Could the debt be FRAUD?
__ Problem #3 : pursuant to clause 4, 14th amendment, the validity of the debt cannot be challenged... even when it is a gigantic fraud.

Based on current mining rates, it would take 8,700 years to mine enough bullion IF the debt and interest were frozen right now.

[2] SocSec is a voluntary "tax and bribe" scam.
“The Social Security Act does not require an individual to have a Social Security Number (SSN) to live and work within the United States, nor does it require an SSN simply for the purpose of having one...â€
- - - The Social Security Administration

http://home.hiwaay.net/~becraft/ScottSSNLetter.pdf
[1] " An income tax is neither a property tax nor a tax on occupations of common right, but is an excise tax. The legislature may declare as *privileged* and tax as such for state revenue, those pursuits not matters of common right, but it has no power to declare as *privilege* and tax for revenue purposes, occupations that are of common right."
- - - Simms v Ahrens, 271 SW 720 (1925)

" Since the right to receive income or earnings is a right belonging to every person, this right cannot be taxed as *privilege*. "
- - - Jack Cole Company v Alfred T. MacFarland, Supreme Court of Tennessee (1960)

"The individual, unlike the corporation, cannot be taxed for the mere privilege of existing. The corporation is an artificial entity which owes its existence and charter powers to the state; but, the individual's rights to live and own property are NATURAL RIGHTS for the enjoyment of which an excise [tax] cannot be imposed."
Redfield vs Fisher, 292 P. 813, at 819.

" Any claim that this statute is a taxing statute would be immediately open to severe constitutional objections. If it could be said that the state had the power to tax a right, this would enable the state to destroy rights guaranteed by the constitutions through the use of oppressive taxation. The question herein, is one of the state taxing the right of travel by the ordinary modes of the day, and whether this is a legitimate object of state taxation. The views advanced herein are neither novel nor unsupported by authority. The question of the taxing power of the states has been repeatedly considered by the High Court. The right of the states to impede or embarrass the constitutional operations of the the U.S. Government or the Rights which the citizens hold under it, has been uniformly denied."
McCulloch v. Maryland 4 Wheat 316.


This raises the question : which revenue taxable privilege are you exercising that would empower a VAT tax (excise tax) on retail transactions? Or on all incomes?

Write a polite letter to your congressman, and ask him.

You might also ask when Congress or the president will end the State of Emergency.
Senate Report 93-549
War and Emergency Powers Acts
"A majority of the people of the United States have lived all of their lives under emergency rule. For 40 years (as of the report 1933-1973), freedoms and governmental procedures guaranteed by the Constitution have, in varying degrees, been abridged by laws brought into force by states of national emergency."
... ABRIDGED BY LAWS ... UNDER EMERGENCY RULE ...
Constitutional U.S.A. (1787 - 1933) R.I.P.
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Old 10-16-2013, 08:54 AM
 
Location: somewhere in the woods
16,880 posts, read 15,201,197 times
Reputation: 5240
16 trillion? add in the unfunded debt and that number is over 100 trillion.
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Old 10-16-2013, 09:10 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,792 posts, read 13,951,723 times
Reputation: 5661
jetgraphics, we aren't on the gold standard. Also, I think your math is wrong. $16 trillion divided by 800 billion ounces is $20 an ounce.
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Old 10-16-2013, 09:46 AM
 
12,270 posts, read 11,331,859 times
Reputation: 8066
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
The Obama Administration didn't use the IRS to derail the Tea Baggers. Don't make statements based upon conjecture and not facts.
The Fake Story About the IRS Commissioner and the White House - Garance Franke-Ruta - The Atlantic

So the tax code is long. Complicated things are complicated.
Hmm. "Based upon conjecture." Let's see, C-D TOS dictates we can't call people liars around here, but some people do reflect a remarkable flexibility with reality. One article in the Atlantic, a fiercely progressive magazine since it's founding in the 1880's, and suddenly we're supposed to ignore Lois Lerner and the last almost two years of hearings on the IRS. All reported in the NYT by the way.

And saying complicated things are complicated is downright dopey, especially when Congress deliberately keeps it complicated. Attitudes like this are why things only get worse in DC.
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Old 10-16-2013, 10:34 AM
 
3,353 posts, read 6,442,185 times
Reputation: 1128
I honestly don't believe its fair that my generation, Generation Y, is going to have to find this debt from today that had barely had any benefit on us aside from increased College Grants, A few small infrastructure upgrades in certain cities, and Etc. With the deficits we have, we should be having prosperity in this country, but nonetheless we are still in crisis mode. I mean, how do our politicians honestly believe any generation is going to be able to fund this mess? I'll move to another country before my tax rate hits 50% to pay for something that hasn't benefited me, if that country has a 50% tax rate then I'm sure it has benefits for that type of rate that the US won't have.

Sorry for the rant, now we can get back to addressing things on how to reduce the long-term debt.
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