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1. Whose belly grows bigger? Who undergoes medical procedure? Who takes an abortion pill?
2. Is it the man who got the woman pregnant?
3. Who is involved when you get the flu or a root canal? You or your spouse?
And no, I am not comparing abortion to a root canal.
Again, I was primarily talking about the prenatal human being here, rather than about the man.
1. The woman.
2. Partly--the blame for this is generally equal for both the woman and for the man. Of course, it is purely/solely the woman's unilateral final decision in regards to whether or not a new person is created.
3. I don't know exactly what a root canal is, but for the flu, I.
Now for my questions:
1. Who gets killed inside of the womb/woman?
2. Did the prenatal human being have a say in his or her conception?
3. Could the woman had generally avoided risking pregnancy in the first place?
4. Is losing decades of one's life due to something which you could not control a greater sacrifice than having one's body be used against one's will for nine months due to something which you could have controlled and avoided?
Even if that wasn't your original argument, the fact remains the same when it gets boiled down to it:
Her body, her choice. You can be as anti-abortion as you want and I can be as pro-abortion as I want, but the only person who can decide whether or not to get an abortion is the pregnant woman.
Her body, her choice.
So if someone stabs me in the kidney, (in your opinion) he/she should be able to deny me the use of his/her kidney in order for me to survive?
Also, in regards to things such as child support, I can just as easily say, "The man's money and labor, his choice".
Let me try responding to/commenting on all of these arguments.
1. People will also commit infanticide, rape, post-natal killing, theft, assault, domestic violence, child abuse, et cetera anyway. Should we make these things legal?
2. Many, if not most or all, of our current laws do legislate morality. Some examples of this would be the things which I said in #1 which are currently banned.
1. Yeah, this is a weak argument.
2. But then why are elective abortions illegal past viability (and/or past another stage of development, such as in some European countries)?
1. This is a decent argument, but one needs to elaborate on this.
2. The life at conception thing is a good point, but one needs to elaborate on this, and abortion should not necessarily be murder as opposed to manslaughter, et cetera.
1. Yeah, this is a bad argument.
2. Actually, as I pointed out above, this is an extremely strong argument.
Just to elaborate, the only reason you can legislate morality is because 95%+ of the population agrees morally. When you have an issue like abortion where the population is divided on the morality of abortion, banning it only hardens the opposition in their resolve to overturn the legislation.
I suppose you are right that you can legislate morality, but legislation on its own does not change public opinion, and if public opinion never shifts, there will always be high demand for abortions.
Just to elaborate, the only reason you can legislate morality is because 95%+ of the population agrees morally. When you have an issue like abortion where the population is divided on the morality of abortion, banning it only hardens the opposition in their resolve to overturn the legislation.
I suppose you are right that you can legislate morality, but legislation on its own does not change public opinion, and if public opinion never shifts, there will always be high demand for abortions.
I do agree with you about the fact that changing the public's minds is extremely important in this regard, but my overall point in regards to this does appear to stand.
Are you also against forcing individuals to get prostate exams as a part of their check-ups if they want to get everything else done but not the prostate exams?
Is it a LAW that a physician can't give a man a physical unless he submits to a digital prostrate exam, or can the man decline?
That is between the doctor and his patient......not the government's business......not my business.....not your business.
So if someone stabs me in the kidney, (in your opinion) he/she should be able to deny me the use of his/her kidney in order for me to survive?
There is little logic in this statement nor does it have anything to do with abortion or a woman's body. I refuse to entertain this notion any further and will instead bring us back on topic with the following:
Her body, her choice.
Quote:
Also, in regards to things such as child support, I can just as easily say, "The man's money and labor, his choice".
No. You are more apt to say, "The man's money and labor, his OPINION".
Remember it isn't the man getting the abortion, it's the woman. Therefore, because it's HER body it is HER choice.
just a question. I could give two craps about abortion, but I am curious as to why liberals support regulating everything from large sodas to guns, but want a free for all abortion society.
The real reason or the rhetoric? You can guess the rhetoric. It's all about individual rights and freedom. But as you already pointed out, that rhetoric is obviously false since when you try to apply it to other freedoms it suddenly disappears.
The real reason is that it promotes big government. Abortion is good for creating government dependency. First, maintaining widespread access to it is an excuse for more government entitlements. Second, widespread access to abortion makes casual sex easier and less risky. This leads to formation of less families, which means people have to rely on government instead of relatives. It is a demonstrable fact that the more urban the environment the more liberal the environment. Tight knit communities tend to rely on each other rather than looking towards government. The less emphasis there is on personal responsibility, the more reliance there is on government.
Even if that wasn't your original argument, the fact remains the same when it gets boiled down to it:
Her body, her choice. You can be as anti-abortion as you want and I can be as pro-abortion as I want, but the only person who can decide whether or not to get an abortion is the pregnant woman.
Her body, her choice.
Unless it's her choice of what kind of car to drive, what kind of insurance to carry, what size soda to drink, how much salt to use, what kind of bag to get at the grocery store, what sort of show to listen to on talk radio, whether or not she can say offensive things, etc.
"Her body, her choice" is just empty rhetoric. It's not a real principle. It's exactly the same as the liberals who declare the constitution protects the right to unrestricted abortion, but then turn around and say we need common sense restrictions on gun ownership. "Her body, her choice" is simply a convenient slogan to use to promote reliance on big government. Should she choose to protect her body by buying a gun, the "her body, her choice" liberal will promptly abandon that principle like a hot potato.
The real reason or the rhetoric? You can guess the rhetoric. It's all about individual rights and freedom. But as you already pointed out, that rhetoric is obviously false since when you try to apply it to other freedoms it suddenly disappears.
The real reason is that it promotes big government. Abortion is good for creating government dependency. First, maintaining widespread access to it is an excuse for more government entitlements. Second, widespread access to abortion makes casual sex easier and less risky. This leads to formation of less families, which means people have to rely on government instead of relatives. It is a demonstrable fact that the more urban the environment the more liberal the environment. Tight knit communities tend to rely on each other rather than looking towards government. The less emphasis there is on personal responsibility, the more reliance there is on government.
And yet, in practice, the conservative states that preach and practice this "no abortion" BS are sucking on the gov't teat. In addition, the states in question rank near last place on any number of metrics. Including, but not limited to, education, income, teen birth rate, welfare rates, child well being, and poverty rates.
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