Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Should the U.S do the same? Imagine that your great grandfather or great grandmother was an undocumented Irish immigrant who came to America. Maybe he stowed himself in the belly of a cargo ship between sacks of flour dreaming of the Statue of Liberty. Maybe she came to visit a friend in Boston but stayed forever....Now imagine that the United States passed a law today retroactive to the 1920s decreeing that due to the migratory status of a family member two generations ago who you never met, you are not a U.S. citizen and have no nationality...So it is in the Dominican Republic, where nearly two hundred thousand people will be rendered without citizenship of any nation due to a baffling ruling by the Constitutional Court last week. The court ruling, which cannot be appealed, states that children of undocumented Haitian migrants, even those born in the Dominican Republic more than eighty years ago, are no longer entitled to the citizenship previously afforded them (For some reason the quote & link option is not working) So here is the link to story. Dominicans Retroactively Robbed of Citizenship | The National Interest Blog
But the interesting caveat to this is that Haiti does not have "jus soli" as a law in it's borders or on it's books.
Should the U.S do the same? Imagine that your great grandfather or great grandmother was an undocumented Irish immigrant who came to America. Maybe he stowed himself in the belly of a cargo ship between sacks of flour dreaming of the Statue of Liberty. Maybe she came to visit a friend in Boston but stayed forever....Now imagine that the United States passed a law today retroactive to the 1920s decreeing that due to the migratory status of a family member two generations ago who you never met, you are not a U.S. citizen and have no nationality...So it is in the Dominican Republic, where nearly two hundred thousand people will be rendered without citizenship of any nation due to a baffling ruling by the Constitutional Court last week. The court ruling, which cannot be appealed, states that children of undocumented Haitian migrants, even those born in the Dominican Republic more than eighty years ago, are no longer entitled to the citizenship previously afforded them (For some reason the quote & link option is not working) So here is the link to story. Dominicans Retroactively Robbed of Citizenship | The National Interest Blog
An illegal alien found in the US needs to be deported but; any anchor babies above age 18 should be allowed to stay since the're US citizens. Tho I'd like to see even that law changed to allow the deporting of anchors under age 18 if BOTH parents are illegal aliens. But that wouldn't affect a 60 yo US born person if the illegal alien parents were here in 1929.
An illegal alien found in the US needs to be deported but; any anchor babies above age 18 should be allowed to stay since the're US citizens. Tho I'd like to see even that law changed to allow the deporting of anchors under age 18 if BOTH parents are illegal aliens. But that wouldn't affect a 60 yo US born person if the illegal alien parents were here in 1929.
It's NOT a "law". It's in the US Constitution, so you have to have a constitutional amendment.
You cannot make some illegal now that wasn't illegal in the past (ex post facto) -- Article 1, Section 9.
You cannot make children guilty by "corruption of blood" for crimes committed by their parents (attainder) -- Article 1, Section 9.
The 14th Amendment defines a citizen as anyone born in the US, regardless of the status of his/her parents.
It's NOT a "law". It's in the US Constitution, so you have to have a constitutional amendment.
You cannot make some illegal now that wasn't illegal in the past (ex post facto) -- Article 1, Section 9.
You cannot make children guilty by "corruption of blood" for crimes committed by their parents (attainder) -- Article 1, Section 9.
The 14th Amendment defines a citizen as anyone born in the US, regardless of the status of his/her parents.
Why is this so hard to understand????
That is false. The status of the parents most certainly matters in the amendment hence the exclusion of the children of diplomats. The State Dept is well within its rights to deny the issuance of a USA passport to say the US born child of non-resident parents. Whether such an action will be deemed constitutional will be a matter for the courts to decide.
There is no explicit law that children of illegals are entitled to the US citizenship. A court can have a different interpretation.
FWIW, I will never travel to DR again for leisure due to this ruling.
I'm sure they're all broke up about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LS Jaun
It's there law and none of our business.
That would be the long and short of it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda_d
It's NOT a "law". It's in the US Constitution, so you have to have a constitutional amendment.
You cannot make some illegal now that wasn't illegal in the past (ex post facto) -- Article 1, Section 9.
Ex post facto doesn't apply here.
In every situation, you must be "lawfully situated" in order to obtain any legal protections.
In other words, you must be "clean" and not "dirty."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda_d
You cannot make children guilty by "corruption of blood" for crimes committed by their parents (attainder) -- Article 1, Section 9.
Attainder does not apply here.
The children are not being charged with any crime, so attainder does not attach.
Also, citizenship issues fall under the class of administrative proceedings which are effectively quasi-civil proceedings and not necessarily criminal proceedings (although they could be under certain conditions).
If you do doubt, then my suggestion is start reviewing case law.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda_d
The 14th Amendment defines a citizen as anyone born in the US, regardless of the status of his/her parents.
And there is a presumption of no criminal activity, that a person is lawfully situated and so on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda_d
Why is this so hard to understand????
I do understand; it is you who does not.
"He who comes into equity must come with clean hands."
Precision Instrument Mfg. Co. v. Automotive Co., 324 U.S. 806 (1945)
When you understand that, and when you have reviewed those cases which have cited this case, then you will have 1/100th of the knowledge I have to argue this.
And that's only one doctrine of 7 that actually apply here --- I covered the two easiest and most important ones to understand.
The moment the parents violated US immigration laws, regardless of how they did it, they became felons and their hands are no longer clean.
Furthermore, the parents committed an illegal act for the express purpose of attempting to subvert federal laws by having a child.
Can't do it. US Supreme Court says no one may benefit, profit or gain from any illegal act, regardless.
That means you cannot have dirty hands and profit. It means you cannot have dirty hands and your spouse or children or business partner or anyone else can profit.
That is true in both civil and criminal law.
The children of those illegal immigrants are not being charged with any crime, rather they are being stripped of citizenship, which is an administrative proceeding, and not a criminal proceeding.
terrible. I am adding the DR to the list of countries that will never see my tourist dollars. (along with Russia and Israel) I'll just go to Puerto Rico where I don't need a passport. Hopefully these people can work something out with Haiti or the US.
it is a humanitarian crisis and it is everyone's business. where will these people go? where do they belong? Maybe we can find a place for them here in the US.
it is a humanitarian crisis and it is everyone's business. where will these people go? where do they belong? Maybe we can find a place for them here in the US.
If we let everyone in the US due to what people percieve as unfairness in their home country we would have a population as large as India.
Personally, I would prefer Haitians being allowed to relocate here in place of Somailians as I believe that conservative Muslim cultures don't adapt to American culture well. Anyway, this is a DR Haitian issue and not ours. Things almost never work out well for the US when we stick our noses into other countires affairs.
terrible. I am adding the DR to the list of countries that will never see my tourist dollars. (along with Russia and Israel) I'll just go to Puerto Rico where I don't need a passport. Hopefully these people can work something out with Haiti or the US.
I think the Domincan Republic will survive nonetheless.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
