British NHS Death Rate 4x Higher Than US (stats, companies, cost)

[cuebald]

Originally Posted by 70Ford

Wait, your telling us that people who get into theNational health care system die more often than the ones that don't have access to national health care in the USA?

I bet next your gonna tell us people who die on a bus die 100 times more often on a bus than people who never had access to a bus.

Thanks, Ric Romero.

--70Ford

People are dying now who never did before...

[Finn_Jarber]

Originally Posted by AnUnidentifiedMale

Good thing the ACA is a conservative plan from the Heritage Foundation. It supports private healthcare.

Seems the OP is confused between NHS and ACA and 4X higher vs 45% higher.

[charolastra00]

Originally Posted by BruSan

Excuse me?

http://www.justice.org/cps/rde/xbcr/...nceTactics.pdf

I guess outfits like this exist for no reason whatsoever then?

http://unumclaimsdenial.com/big-business

Maybe you misunderstood me - I was pointing that decisions insurance companies make in favor of the bottom line are not done for anyone's health but the insurance company's profits. And that of course makes sense - any business is out to make money. Many people who rant and rave about the government getting in between them and their doctor seem to have no problem that the vast majority of people already have something in between. Those that can afford to self-pay the $500,000+ cost of cancer treatment, related care, and follow up care are the rare exceptions.

I didn't have time to do much beyond have my doctors and myself petition my health insurance company to give me the chemo that I was prescribed. No time to wait months for that money to come through (though I have waited months for denied scans to be approved). Instead, I had to take an inferior chemo because I needed my lifesaving treatment ASAP.

Meanwhile, in the UK and Canada, people on my support forum who were diagnosed around the same time not only got treatment sooner, but also got the superior chemo - no questions asked. They also did not have to work full time through their treatments in order to afford medication, but that's another topic altogether.

Sorry - I put more trust in the government than I do for-profit insurance companies because of far too much experience for both myself and other anecdotes in the young adult cancer community.

[Mircea]

Originally Posted by charolastra00

Maybe you misunderstood me - I was pointing that decisions insurance companies make in favor of the bottom line are not done for anyone's health but the insurance company's profits.

Thank you for proving my thesis....you took the bee-line and immediately attacked insurance.

You failed to address any of the issues I brought up.

Please state the cash surrender value of your health insurance in USD ($).

Originally Posted by charolastra00

And that of course makes sense - any business is out to make money.

Please explain the purpose and value of profit....in your own words....no wikipuki cut-n-paste.

Originally Posted by charolastra00

Many people who rant and rave about the government getting in between them and their doctor seem to have no problem that the vast majority of people already have something in between.

And who --- organization or association -- is the one that got between you and your doctor?

Originally Posted by charolastra00

Those that can afford to self-pay the $500,000+ cost of cancer treatment, related care, and follow up care are the rare exceptions.

Again, most selfishly, the entire healthcare system revolves around you.

Why does cancer treatment cost $500,000+?

The Laws of Economics reign supreme. No person who lives now, who has ever lived, or who ever will live has any power or control over the Laws of Economics. The Laws of Economics at play here center on Economy of Scale, Opportunity Costs, the Law of Supply & Demand, and Capital Limitations.

You can hand a broom to damn near anyone, but you want to put scalpels in everyone's hands?

Within any give population, only a percentage have what it takes --- skill, ability, aptitude, desire and intelligence --- to be a doctor.

Of those, only a certain percentage could ever be oncologists.

That's your Capital....and there is a limit to it --- there's a small percentage of doctors, an even smaller percentage are, or could ever be, oncologists.

So, what, force cardiologists to switch to oncology? Then that would create a shortage of cardiologists and people with heart disease would die.

And the Capital Limitations do not apply to just doctors, it applies to space, facilities, equipment and medication/treatment.

That is why these Brits died....

Lung cancer treatment waiting times and tumour growth.

Therefore, 21% of potentially curable patients became incurable on the waiting list.
This study demonstrates that, even for the select minority of patients who have specialist referral and are deemed suitable for potentially curative treatment, the outcome is prejudiced by waiting times that allow tumour progression.

US National Library of Medicine National Institutes of Health

....the reason waiting times exist, is because the British NHS refuses to spend the money necessary to pay for the cost of healthcare.

Because the British NHS refuses to pay the cost of healthcare, there are shortages of facilities, space, equipment and competent staff to perform those surgeries....creating waiting lists on which people die.

Same situation here in Sweden......

Mortality on the waiting list for coronary artery bypass grafting: incidence and risk factors

BACKGROUND: Insufficient capacity for coronary artery bypass grafting results in waiting times before operation, prioritization of patients and, ultimately, death on the waiting list. We aimed to calculate waiting list mortality and to identify risk factors for death on the waiting list.

The Swedish government refuses to pay for the cost of healthcare, choosing to spend less instead, with the result being shortages of Capital, again, facilities, space, equipment and competent medical staff.In reality both States have the money to pay the real cost of healthcare, but to do so means cuts in other government services, since the primary issue is Capital Limitations.

Originally Posted by charolastra00

Meanwhile, in the UK and Canada, people on my support forum who were diagnosed around the same time not only got treatment sooner, but also got the superior chemo - no questions asked. They also did not have to work full time through their treatments in order to afford medication, but that's another topic altogether.

That is irrelevant, and meaningless. We would need to compare charts, especially since the UK and Canada ration healthcare, often taking the most likely to succeed over those who chances are poorer.

Originally Posted by charolastra00

Sorry - I put more trust in the government than I do for-profit insurance companies because of far too much experience for both myself and other anecdotes in the young adult cancer community.

Again, please state the cash surrender value of your insurance policy in USD.

Originally Posted by charolastra00

And yet people have no problem with their insurance companies running their healthcare.

Explain to us in your own words how you believe insurance works.

Anyway, so-called "health insurance" companies do not establish the cost of healthcare, the American Hospital Association and its monopolistic cartels do that.

Since healthcare is intra-State Commerce --- even your Supreme Court said so --- Congress has no power or authority here, and neither does the Federal Trade Commission, which investigates collusion and price-fixing. This is something the States will have to tackle.

So...."insurance" is the reason cancer treatment costs $500,000+ is a total fail, right?

What are you doing to attack the real cause of healthcare costs?

Nothing.

Suppose the true cost of your cancer treatment was actually $230,000 in real terms......why would or why should you pay $500,000+?

Why aren't you angry at the people who are price-gouging you? Why would you want other people to be price-gouged?

Thanks again for proving my point...

Mircea

[Three Wolves In Snow]

Originally Posted by le roi

I've seen hundreds, if not thousands of people say "Repeal Obamacare," and you're the first to use this justification.

The overwhelming majority of ACA opponents don't seem to have an alternative.

That's because Mircea is smarter than us.

[Mircea]

Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber

Seems the OP is confused between NHS and ACA and 4X higher vs 45% higher.

Thanks for proving my point. You're Failure #2.

I botched the thread title cutting and pasting....1,000 pardons.

Granted, everyone knows that you don't understand the economics behind healthcare, but the fact that you were unable to address even a single issue says it all.

Why aren't you attacking the root cause of the problem?

Pinning....

Mircea

[Mircea]

Originally Posted by 70Ford

Wait, your telling us that people who get into theNational health care system die more often than the ones that don't have access to national health care in the USA?

I bet next your gonna tell us people who die on a bus die 100 times more often on a bus than people who never had access to a bus.

Thanks, Ric Romero.

--70Ford

And you would be Failure #3. Thanks for proving my point.

You couldn't address even one single issue, so you attempt to deflect.

Anyway, thanks also for your confirmation and admission that Britain has a two-tiered healthcare system....

....I guess some British Pigs are more equal than others....

Mircea

[sanspeur]

Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow

That's because Mircea is smarter than us.

Lol....Maybe some of us, but not very many.

[Mircea]

Originally Posted by BruSan

RWNJ's...

I'm a registered Democrat.

Originally Posted by BruSan

... are all imbued with a higher sense of free enterprise, anything and everything MUST make a profit. The only measuring stick to use deciding the worth of a program to aid and assist human health is whether or not it makes a freak'n profit.

And you're Failure #4. Thanks for proving my point.

No one said squat about profit, but good fail at attempting to deflect.

Is the issue too complicated for you to understand? I mean you failed to address even one of the issues.

Originally Posted by BruSan

We've been down this road before, haven't we?

No.....but that would either be another failed attempt to deflect and derail, or a clear sign you do not understand the issues.

Why do you refuse any and all attempts to address the root cause of the systemic problems in your healthcare system?

You seem to be another who is unable to differentiate between "spending less," and "costing less." They are not the same thing.

The proof is in the posts.....

Mircea

[Mircea]

Originally Posted by sanspeur

NHS shame: Death rate in Britain's hospitals is far higher than US

Mircea, you obviously spent a lot of time on your OP...Too bad it was wasted...It is pretty simple to me....More people die in hospitals in the UK because everyone has access to care, and there are more people being treated than there is in the US...

Introduction to Percentages

Da wittle wabbit will expwain ew'yfing to you.

Originally Posted by sanspeur

If your premise were true, it would be reflected in a lower life expectancy in the UK over the US, but the opposite is the case....As a matter of fact most nations that have universal health care enjoy longer lives. In fact there are 49 countries who's citizens live longer than those in the US...

Since you're having such a terrible time with Percentages, I'm guessing healthcare metrics would be way over you're head. I couldn't find any cartoons for you, but I did find this handy chart...



That chart illustrates how metrics affects healthcare statistics.

Originally Posted by sanspeur

So much for the idea that the US has superior medical care...It is just not true.

I'm going to let British NHS and the US Center for Disease Control prove how wrong you are.....




At any rate, you should be proud to be labeled Failure #5, and I give you a big hearty "thanks" for proving how disconnected from reality you people really are.

Next time, try addressing the issues....

Mircea