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Old 11-04-2013, 08:46 PM
 
Location: Ohio
24,621 posts, read 19,165,825 times
Reputation: 21738

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I doubt this will sway the bigots, but it's worth a try to save as many American lives as possible.....

Sep 11, 2013

NHS shame: Death rate in Britain's hospitals is far higher than US


PATIENTS face a much higher chance of dying in an NHS hospital than in an American one, it was revealed last night.

The unexpectedly high death rates in England show that those admitted to a ward on the National Health Service are 45 per cent more likely to die than in a US hospital. The alarming figures, uncovered by Channel 4 News's Cradle to Grave NHS Special, also reveal that elderly NHS patients are five times as likely to die from pneumonia and twice as likely to die of septicaemia.

NHS shame: Death rate in Britain's hospitals is far higher than US | Health | News | Daily Express

Death rate 'much higher' in English than US hospitals

Death rate 'much higher' in English than US hospitals - Health News - NHS Choices


NHS hospital death rates 45% HIGHER than in America, according to new figures 12 Sep 2013 02:00 NHS medical director Sir Bruce Keogh wants clinical leaders to investigate the figures and improve the rates.

Check out all the latest News, Sport & Celeb gossip at Mirror.co.uk NHS hospital death rates 45% HIGHER than in America, according to new figures - Mirror Online

NHS hospital death rates among worst, new study finds

NHS hospital death rates among worst, new study finds - Channel 4 News

NHS patients 45% more likely to die than in US

Patients are 45% more likely to die in NHS hospitals than in US ones, according to figures revealing how badly England’s health service compares with those of other countries

NHS patients 45% more likely to die than in US - Telegraph

NHS mortality rate higher than in US

NHS mortality rate higher than in US - Health News - Health & Families - The Independent

British shocked at NHS hospital death rates — among the world’s worst and (gasp) far inferior to U.S. hospitals

British shocked at NHS hospital death rates — among the world’s worst and (gasp) far inferior to U.S. hospitals | Conservative Intelligence Briefing


NHS death rate is one of worst in the West: Patients 50% more likely to die of neglect than in US, says study

Read more: NHS death rate is one of worst in the West: Patients 50% more likely to die of neglect than in US, says study | Mail Online
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


....so, there it is. I purposely didn't use the Block Quote function so that people could search easier.

I have come to the conclusion that there is a serious disconnect from reality by supporters of the ACA.

This disconnect is the fundamental difference between ACA supporters and those who oppose it, and the crux of the matter revolves around the focal point.

Those who oppose the ACA, are focused primarily with healthcare costs imposed by the monopolistic AHA-member hospital cartels who illegally collude to illegally fix prices in each of the various Markets in the US, as well as costs levied by all medical facilities in general. A secondary issue is the total lack of transparency related to hospital or medical fees and charges for services.

Those who support the ACA are solely concerned with their own personal costs vis-a-vis the premiums they pay for the fee-for-service healthcare plans reluctantly offered through their employers. Their secondary focus is on receiving unlimited extraordinary free health care at practically no cost to them.

Clearly, those who oppose the ACA are concerned about all Americans, while ACA supporters are grotesquely selfish, since their sole focus is "What does it cost me?"

That becomes even clearer when we review the information provided by the General Accounting Office...

1] Technology up to 65%
2] Consumer Demand up to 36%
3] Expanding Health Benefits or Insuring more people up to 13%
4] Healthcare Price Inflation up to 19% (caused by Consumer Demand and insuring more people)
5] Administrative Costs up to 13% (caused by Technology, Consumer Demand and Regulations)
6] Aging/Elderly up to 7%


Source: United States Government General Accounting Office GAO-13-281 PPACA and the Long-Term Fiscal Outlook, January 2013 pp 31-36

The expansion of health insurance increases health care cost per capita as people demand more health care when they are better insured. Health insurance has expanded in two ways: (1) by covering an increasing share of the population and (2) by covering each person more completely (page 34).

The ACA definitely does both....increases the number of people covered, and increases the amount of coverage by mandating what is covered.

Opponents of the ACA do not have an issue with that. We accept it as a matter of consequence of the Laws of Economics.

The issue ACA opponents have is that the ACA does nothing to address the fact that Technology is the driving force behind healthcare cost increases.

Even the Liberal Commonwealth Fund says...

"The U.S. spends far more on health care than any other country. However this high spending cannot be attributed to higher income, an older population, or greater supply or utilization of hospitals and doctors. Instead, the findings suggest the higher spending is more likely due to higher prices and perhaps more readily accessible technology and greater obesity.
"

Source: Explaining High Health Care Spending in the United States: An International Comparison of Supply, Utilization, Prices, and Quality, Commonwealth Fund pub. 1595 Vol. 10, May 2012.

The US government says neither the uninsured nor the elderly have a negative impact on healthcare costs. The Commonwealth Fund says the same thing. Both the Liberal Commonwealth Fund and the US government GAO identify Technology as the primary culprit.

The Liberal Commonwealth Fund actually takes a bold daring step the US government GAO did not take, and names Moral Hazard (obesity) as another cause.

The other main criticism from ACA opponents, is that the ACA does nothing to attack the root cause of the problem regarding healthcare costs: the ridiculous prices set by monopolistic hospital cartels.

Basically, you have a monopoly that illegally engages in price-fixing and charges outrages fees for healthcare services, and the solution proffered by the ACA supporters is to attack anyone and anything except the monopolists.

A great analogy would be a monopoly on auto-collision repair....the monopolists charge outrageous prices, refuse to give you an estimate or tell you the cost in advance, refuse to publish a price list, charge people of varying socio-economic backgrounds different rates for services, charge people with varying insurance companies different rates services.......but ACA supporters don't care about that....instead they scream at the auto insurance companies, who are not the cause of the problem.

The other part of the disconnect centers on True Cost. The former German Health Minister explains that really well...

"In the past 20 years, our overriding philosophy has been that the health system cannot spend more than its income." -- Franz Knieps German Minister of Health (2009)

Virtual budgets are also set up at the regional levels; these ensure that all participants in the system—including the health insurance funds and providers— know from the beginning of the year onward how much money can be spent. -- Franz Knieps German Minister of Health (2009)

Source: How Germany is reining in health care costs An interview with Franz Knieps

The true cost of you rent or mortgage is whatever it is, let's say $1,250/month.
You can choose to spend less, but by spending less, you did not alter reality, since your mortgage is still $1,250/month. Worse than that, because you chose to spend less than the true cost, you will suffer, in this case through foreclosure.

What is the true cost of healthcare in Britain?

Well, it doesn't really matter what the true cost is.

What matters is that Britain chose to spend less than what healthcare truly costs, and the result is a death rate that is 45% higher.That's what happens when you violate the Laws of Economics.

Watch what happens (in America)...

Mircea
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Old 11-04-2013, 08:50 PM
 
4,571 posts, read 3,520,506 times
Reputation: 3261
Obviously, you're a racist...

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Old 11-04-2013, 08:51 PM
 
9,659 posts, read 10,227,349 times
Reputation: 3225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed from California View Post
Obviously, you're a racist...

The United Kingdom is a multi cultural country
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Old 11-04-2013, 08:52 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
29,823 posts, read 24,908,096 times
Reputation: 28520
Fine by me. The grim reaper can have my last and most miserable years. Humans are mortal. Get over it. Is it worth spending hundreds of thousands and then millions of dollars extending life another couple months, maybe a couple years? In most cases, these patients are simply withering away, just waiting to die. I don't want that to be me. If the body is giving up, it's time to let go.
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Old 11-04-2013, 08:52 PM
 
26,680 posts, read 28,670,280 times
Reputation: 7943
Good thing the ACA is a conservative plan from the Heritage Foundation. It supports private healthcare.
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Old 11-04-2013, 09:00 PM
 
Location: The High Plains
525 posts, read 508,658 times
Reputation: 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnUnidentifiedMale View Post
Good thing the ACA is a conservative plan from the Heritage Foundation. It supports private healthcare.
No conservative supports it.

ACA expands those who have insurance...it does nothing to control costs.

It's destined to fail by its own design and you sycophants are so stupid that you can't even see why despite being told multiple times in multiple ways.

Costs of services is the problem...not little Billy with no insurance.
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Old 11-04-2013, 09:16 PM
 
Location: Montreal, Quebec
15,080 posts, read 14,324,813 times
Reputation: 9789
"NHS shame: Death rate in Britain's hospitals is far higher than US"


USA shame: Patient dumping from American hospitals is far higher than in the UK.

That's right....just put them on a Greyhound bus and dump them onto the street in another state.
No longer their problem.





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Old 11-04-2013, 09:19 PM
 
Location: Free From The Oppressive State
30,253 posts, read 23,737,137 times
Reputation: 38634
Quote:
Originally Posted by weltschmerz View Post
"NHS shame: Death rate in Britain's hospitals is far higher than US"


USA shame: Patient dumping from American hospitals is far higher than in the UK.

That's right....just put them on a Greyhound bus and dump them onto the street in another state.
No longer their problem.





Please provide factual evidence supporting your claim that this happens, enough so to make you act like it's a common occurrence.
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Old 11-04-2013, 09:20 PM
 
Location: Northern Wisconsin
10,379 posts, read 10,917,022 times
Reputation: 18713
Not to worry. We will not let the UK beat us. We'll catch up to them very soon.
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Old 11-04-2013, 09:24 PM
 
Location: Free From The Oppressive State
30,253 posts, read 23,737,137 times
Reputation: 38634
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
I doubt this will sway the bigots, but it's worth a try to save as many American lives as possible.....

...The Liberal Commonwealth Fund actually takes a bold daring step the US government GAO did not take, and names Moral Hazard (obesity) as another cause.

...

Watch what happens (in America)...

[/i]Mircea
That is my main problem with ACA. When you allow the government to run your healthcare, you open the door to them telling you what you can and cannot eat or drink, how many hours you must sleep, how many miles you must run...it would be like having an overbearing parent all up in your business. That is not something I am willing to accept. And if they decide how much they are going to spend each year, at the beginning of the year, will they decide who is, and who is not, worth treatment when they are getting low on money? I'm not willing to accept that, either.
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