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Yes, I've seen your graphic posted a dozen times in this thread. It should also be pointed out that while the lower 80%'s share of income has been going down year after year, the top 20% has seen only growth in their income.
THIS is why:
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent
Let's look at who PAYS local, state, and federal taxes, and who TAKES that money in the form of government benefits, services, and programs:
Or, if you prefer, a more recent analysis from the Chairman of the Economics Department at Harvard University:
Quote:
"Because transfer payments are, in effect, the opposite of taxes, it makes sense to look not just at taxes paid, but at taxes paid minus transfers received. For 2009, the most recent year available, here are taxes less transfers as a percentage of market income (income that households earned from their work and savings):
Bottom quintile: -301 percent
Second quintile: -42 percent
Middle quintile: -5 percent
Fourth quintile: 10 percent Highest quintile: 22 percent Top one percent: 28 percent
The negative 301 percent means that a typical family in the bottom quintile receives about $3 in transfer payments for every dollar earned.
The most surprising fact to me was that the effective tax rate is negative for the middle quintile. According to the CBO data, this number was +14 percent in 1979 (when the data begin) and remained positive through 2007. It was negative 0.5 percent in 2008, and negative 5 percent in 2009. That is, the middle class, having long been a net contributor to the funding of government, is now a net recipient of government largess."
60% are TAKING more than they contribute, making them a net drain on society. The 4th highest quintile are moderate contributors. But the top 20% is the demographic that's largely funding the federal government and all of its programs, and the top 1% even more so.
How do you not understand that under such a tax and government services and benefits structure, a very strong incentive exists for the government to promote as wide of an income gap as possible?
huh...those posts aren't nearly as interesting when you remove the cut/paste pasta.
OK heres the reality that should disturb you then. that top 1 percent shouldered 1 trillion dollars in taxes.....at a effective rate of 20.6% (and the top 400 of that 1%? Their effective rate was 16.6%)
In other words the top 1% pull in approx 5 trillion dollars.....
I don't always have hours of chat time to spend with you, so when I have to cut and run, all you get is a parting gift and maybe a web link to read.
The truly wealthy pay a 16% tax rate because they do not earn an "income" hence they never pay income taxes. So you guys can call for raising income taxes on "the rich" all you like, meanwhile the Warren Buffett, Wall Street fat cats of the world get cozy with the likes of Obama and make a killing off the fed essentially pumping $85 billion a month into their bank accounts.
THIS is why: 60% are TAKING more than they contribute, making them a net drain on society. The 4th highest quintile are moderate contributors. But the top 20% is the demographic that's largely funding the federal government and all of its programs, and the top 1% even more so.
How do you not understand that under such a tax and government services and benefits structure, a very strong incentive exists for the government to promote as wide of an income gap as possible?
Because many people ignorant, not "informed," or they are just partisan political hacks and just repeat the talking points of their masters.
A Model T with zero modern features in 1913 cost $550 or $13K in 2013...
A Hummer fully loaded with XM radio, power steering etc costs $54K...
We are being ripped off, we are being destroyed...look at that massive inflation!!! It costs so much more to get the exact same product - a automobile!!!
You are not being "ripped off" unless you believe America is the only country on Earth.
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Originally Posted by hnsq
If you buy a $2,000 TV with a credit card and can't afford it, is that Best Buy's fault?
That's not entirely true....they wasted a lot of tax-payer dollars and destroyed a lot of property.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gtownoe
First off neither party is doing much for the poor and underpriveleged so that's a wash.
They do more than enough for the "underprivileged."
It is not the fault of government that the "underprivileged" refuse to take advantage of the opportunities handed to them on a silver platter.
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Originally Posted by Gtownoe
But what are Republicans doing to help the poor in this country?
They do more than enough for the "underprivileged."
Again, it is not the fault of Republicans that the "underprivileged" refuse to take advantage of the opportunities handed to them on a silver platter.
Being underprivileged is a choice, not a condition.
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Originally Posted by Grizzmeister
This is a fantastic video!
It was easy to debunk, since he lies and bases everything on fallacies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar
I had different words for that.
Horrifying, disgusting, perturbing, rage inducing, etc. But yeah. Its a excellent video to show people and help them understand whats been happening. Then they too can feel the same feelings of....rage, horror, and disgust as I do.
I also thought someone using fallacies and lies to make a video was "Horrifying, disgusting, perturbing, rage inducing, etc."
When you grow up you will understand that wealth is a choice....you can choose to create wealth, or not.
Reality is real...
I always love this bit, its SO compelling, so completely correct.....and sooo...misleading.
That would be a most excellent way of summarizing your position.....wealth is a choice....people choose to build wealth, or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar
A bit of research shows that yes...as a % of disposable income thats correct....for us as a society. congratulations on demonstrating a awesome way to lie with statistics.
Disposable income is also a personal choice. You can choose to increase or decrease your disposable income at will, regardless of your income level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar
Well...one of us does, the rest are paying 66% of their income.
By choice.....you make bad choices and then demonize those who make good choices.....that's real smart.
That would be a most excellent way of summarizing your position.....wealth is a choice....people choose to build wealth, or not.
Disposable income is also a personal choice. You can choose to increase or decrease your disposable income at will, regardless of your income level.
By choice.....you make bad choices and then demonize those who make good choices.....that's real smart.
Noting....
Mircea
Well, I disagree with this. In order for what you say to be true people would have to have complete control over ALL circumstances in their lives. That's just not possible. WE cannot really control much at all, and when we do, we have control only for a short time. For example, being in the wrong place at the wrong time. The illusion of controlling all circumstances is so intoxicating. The ONLY thing one can somewhat control is what goes on in your head, your own thoughts. Also, what is a "good" choice anyway? If you make a "good choice" to do something that results in your making lots of money, gaining wealth, but ultimately leads to death or horrific injuries, was that really a good choice? Also, for example, how would someone who has an IQ of, say, 65, make "good" financial choices?
THIS is why: 60% are TAKING more than they contribute, making them a net drain on society. The 4th highest quintile are moderate contributors. But the top 20% is the demographic that's largely funding the federal government and all of its programs, and the top 1% even more so.
How do you not understand that under such a tax and government services and benefits structure, a very strong incentive exists for the government to promote as wide of an income gap as possible?
That is your conclusion, not fact. And what you think is right, not fact. And if that is what you think, go ahead, I can't help you. I think it's absolutely asinine.
I never claimed that a lot of people didn't take more than they contribute, or that many contribute more than they receive. That's obvious. A lot of people also make a lot more than they contribute, but I wouldn't expect you to say anything about that. That's a fact of every single thing you do in life.
That being said, I've offered my opinion on how to make things better. So now, let's hear yours. And I mean specifics, not "we need to change taxes and junk". And if your solution is tax breaks for the wealthy, then please don't even bother.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OICU812
Because many people ignorant, not "informed," or they are just partisan political hacks and just repeat the talking points of their masters.
Of course, but what about the liberal posters?
You can't tell me that most of the right wing chatter on here is not just repeated talking points.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OICU812
The truly wealthy pay a 16% tax rate because they do not earn an "income" hence they never pay income taxes. So you guys can call for raising income taxes on "the rich" all you like, meanwhile the Warren Buffett, Wall Street fat cats of the world get cozy with the likes of Obama and make a killing off the fed essentially pumping $85 billion a month into their bank accounts.
This is why investment income should be treated as normal income. You did little to nothing to earn it, why should you get a break on it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea
It is not the fault of government that the "underprivileged" refuse to take advantage of the opportunities handed to them on a silver platter.
So if every unemployed and low-skill worker took advantage of every opportunity and all became smart enough to become doctors and lawyers and accountants...then what? What would happen? I hear this talking point (hey, OICU812...check it out) trotted out time and time again, but with no answer for what an entire country of people who took every opportunity would mean.
Quote:
It was easy to debunk, since he lies and bases everything on fallacies.
Such as? You need to at least say what you mean and not just throw out talking points (OICU812, see what I'm talking about).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea
That would be a most excellent way of summarizing your position.....wealth is a choice....people choose to build wealth, or not.
Disposable income is also a personal choice. You can choose to increase or decrease your disposable income at will, regardless of your income level.
I'm sure that's pretty easy to say if you've never been in that position.
Actually, those ARE the facts. Published by the CBO.
60% are TAKING more than they contribute, making them a net drain on society. The 4th highest quintile are moderate contributors. But the top 20% is the demographic that's largely funding the federal government and all of its programs, and the top 1% even more so.
Quote:
And if your solution is tax breaks for the wealthy, then please don't even bother.
Are you under the impression that the European social democracy countries' regressive tax systems don't work?
Those European countries have the social programs leftists 'claim' they want, including national healthcare, and they have MUCH more income equality. Are you now saying you would rather stick with our progressive tax system and that you DON'T want European-style social programs and income equality anymore?
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I'm preparing for the blast. 
