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From another board that does not deal at all in politics....
"Hi guys, I know most of you are in America but is there anyone from England that can give me advice please. I am trying to get to the bottom of my internal pains, which I believe could be intercostal neuralgia (I have bullous emphysema and A1AD) after alot of research I found out that lung disease can cause your intercostal nerves to give out sharp stabbing pains between your ribs etc as well as dull aching pains in your thoracic/abdominal area, I am trying to get referred to a neurologist to see what they suggest but my Doctor and specialist plus the useless registrar won't refer me! My Doctor wants to put me on Amitriptyline without knowing for sure, I keep phoning the hospital to speak to my specialist but I only get phoned back by the registrar who can't answer any of my questions. When the registrar phoned me back last night he said they are putting me in for a CT scan (which I myself had to push for) but he couldn't tell me when that would be and told me I could only speak to my specialist after I'd had the CT scan, but my Doctor said I would have to wait 5-6 weeks for a CT scan.
I am at the end of my tether here, they say you should see your Doctor and tell them about any new pains and they will help but what are you meant to do if you aren't allowed to speak to anyone and nobody listens to you?? It seems to be the age old problem that if you have a terminal illness that can't be fixed then they don't bother trying to help you :0( "
Well folks we have Vermont going down that very path.
They have to provide a 3 year budget though that shows it being paid for and not going into debt.
They are also still debating how this will be paid for but most likely increased payroll taxes.
Medicare/medicaid in Vermont isn't being touched.
They are going to take all the Fed money they get and add their own to cover the cost.
It's been a few years in planning and will be a few more until full implementation.
And the state is getting directly involved in provider costs/payments..something Obamacare is not involved in.
Then it will be a few more for studies and cost comparisons.
I'd venture it will be a good 10 years before anyone can say whether it worked or not.
Something like this could NEVER be accomplished at the Fed level people.
If you want single payer then it's your state you need to talk to.
Listed below is the complete World Health Report for 2000. This is widely regarded as one of the most comprehensive study of healthcare systems ever conducted. It compares treatment times, expense per citizen as a percentage of GDP, household contributions to health, out of pocket cost, life expectancy, mortality from cancers/cardiovascular disease, equality of treatment across income levels, infant mortality, adminstrative cost, bureucratic waste, physicians per patient, nurses per patient, perscriptions unfilled, and a plethora of others.
From another board that does not deal at all in politics....
"Hi guys, I know most of you are in America but is there anyone from England that can give me advice please. I am trying to get to the bottom of my internal pains, which I believe could be intercostal neuralgia (I have bullous emphysema and A1AD) after alot of research I found out that lung disease can cause your intercostal nerves to give out sharp stabbing pains between your ribs etc as well as dull aching pains in your thoracic/abdominal area, I am trying to get referred to a neurologist to see what they suggest but my Doctor and specialist plus the useless registrar won't refer me! My Doctor wants to put me on Amitriptyline without knowing for sure, I keep phoning the hospital to speak to my specialist but I only get phoned back by the registrar who can't answer any of my questions. When the registrar phoned me back last night he said they are putting me in for a CT scan (which I myself had to push for) but he couldn't tell me when that would be and told me I could only speak to my specialist after I'd had the CT scan, but my Doctor said I would have to wait 5-6 weeks for a CT scan.
I am at the end of my tether here, they say you should see your Doctor and tell them about any new pains and they will help but what are you meant to do if you aren't allowed to speak to anyone and nobody listens to you?? It seems to be the age old problem that if you have a terminal illness that can't be fixed then they don't bother trying to help you :0( "
Sounds like here in the States. Ever had an HMO? Have you ever had a relatively rare disease here in the States where doctors bounce a patient from one to the other while the patient suffers from a lack of treatment? Have you ever had to ditch your insurance and pay out of pocket because the insurance company deemed you did not need this treatment or those particular medicines while still paying a premium? No
8. Cost savings. A single payer system would produce the savings needed to cover everyone, largely by using existing resources without the waste. Taiwan, shifting from a U.S. healthcare model, adopted a single-payer system in 1995, boosting health coverage from 57% to 97% with little if any increase in overall healthcare spending.
way wrong
1. we(the USA) have a population of 320 million
2. with less than 100 million tax payers
we would be ok with singlepayer (as long as its not the typical governmental CRAPcare)...except for the COST..something liberals NEVER WANT TO ADMIT TO
1. mediCARE is not singlepayer...it is a 80/20 insurance
2. the closest thing to singlepayer is medicAID
fact to cover all 320 million people at 80/20 would cost about 3 trillion a year...to cover all at 100% would cost about 6 trillion
number of tax FILERS 130 million...number with a POSITIVE TAX LIABILITY about 65 million
6 trillion divided by 130 million is......46k.
do you ( a taxpayer) have 46 THOUSAND DOLLARS laying around YEARLY.....I think not
even at the 3 trillion mark...that is over 23 thousand a year
singlepayer is ABUSE of the taxpayer
singlepayer would cost 3 - 6 trillion ANNUALLY (remember the federal government ALREADY SPENDS 1 trillion a year between medicare/medicaid/ and the VA)...meanwhile our national revenue(personal income/ coprprate income/ and excise taxes) is only 2.5 trillion
you do the math... the taxpayer cant afford it
singlepayer...would cost 3 to 6 trillion in the USA to cover the 320 million people...depending on the EXTENT of the coverage (ie 3 trillion for a 80/20 policy with many things not covered...or 6 trillion with a 100% (medicaid type) coverage minus cosmetic)
we have 120 million tax FILERS
of those 120 million tax FILERS nearly 50% dont have a positive tax liability (pay taxes)
3 trillion divided by (the full filers) 120 million is 25k
6 trillion divided by 120 million is 50k
3 trillion divided by 65 million (high estimeate of actual tax payers) is 46k
6 trillion divided by 65 million is 90k
can the average tax payer afford 25k - 90k in taxes ANNUALLY????
oh and btw the average health insurance premium is nearly 20k also...most workers only pay 25% while their EMPLOYER pays the other 75%...under singlepayer..no more employer chipping in...its ALL on the taxpayer
Listed below is the complete World Health Report for 2000. This is widely regarded as one of the most comprehensive study of healthcare systems ever conducted. It compares treatment times, expense per citizen as a percentage of GDP, household contributions to health, out of pocket cost, life expectancy, mortality from cancers/cardiovascular disease, equality of treatment across income levels, infant mortality, adminstrative cost, bureucratic waste, physicians per patient, nurses per patient, perscriptions unfilled, and a plethora of others.
I see posts like these and ask.."how do they pay for it".
5.25% of your paycheck/any capital gains just for healthcare
3.95% of your pension check just for healthcare.
People pay out of pocket and get reimbursed 75% by the government.
The 25% can be somewhat recovered by having private health insurance.
There ya go. Back to raising FICA just like I said after you posted about Austria and I came back with how they paid for it.
It's all done through high payroll tax deduction..8% in Austria and 5.25/4.00% in France.
Raise the employee FICA to 15-20% here and you too can have this wonderful healthcare system.
Oh and also have the government get directly involved with costs/reimbursements otherwise it won't work.
I see posts like these and ask.."how do they pay for it".
5.25% of your paycheck/any capital gains just for healthcare
3.95% of your pension check just for healthcare.
People pay out of pocket and get reimbursed 75% by the government.
The 25% can be somewhat recovered by having private health insurance.
There ya go. Back to raising FICA just like I said after you posted about Austria and I came back with how they paid for it.
It's all done through high payroll tax deduction..8% in Austria and 5.25/4.00% in France.
Raise the employee FICA to 15-20% here and you too can have this wonderful healthcare system.
Oh and also have the government get directly involved with costs/reimbursements otherwise it won't work.
Sounds like here in the States. Ever had an HMO? Have you ever had a relatively rare disease here in the States where doctors bounce a patient from one to the other while the patient suffers from a lack of treatment? Have you ever had to ditch your insurance and pay out of pocket because the insurance company deemed you did not need this treatment or those particular medicines while still paying a premium? No
And of course as long as we're tossing around individual anecdotes:
When I visited some old UK friends last year, the wife had just completed comprehensive treatment for breast cancer. She is thankfully in remission. National Health covered EVERYTHING, from initial diagnosis to meds to surgery to chemo … you name it. Her life was saved, period, at a cost which she could never have borne on her own.
The husband, while I was there, was suffering some kind of painful repetitive motion injury in his hand, probably related to work. He saw a doctor immediately and was given a choice of 2 specialists to see next. He chose the one who could see him within the week.
Like I said, individual anecdotes. I doubt that any system is perfect, and that poster's local health service seems to have problems. But I also believe that the Brits would NEVER give up their National Health on the whole.
Why doesn't someone ask that British poster if she'd rather live here and have NO options, or wrestle with whatever problems her individual community seems to have with helping her?
Baloney. People with urgent issues don't wait in line. The lines are for elective procedures.
The number of Canadians who go to the US is less than one half of one percent, and many of those are elderly snowbirds who are already in the US for the winter and get sick.
It's the definition of "elective" that is the devil.
A broken vein or artery in Canada is not "emergency".
I see posts like these and ask.."how do they pay for it".
5.25% of your paycheck/any capital gains just for healthcare
3.95% of your pension check just for healthcare.
People pay out of pocket and get reimbursed 75% by the government.
The 25% can be somewhat recovered by having private health insurance.
There ya go. Back to raising FICA just like I said after you posted about Austria and I came back with how they paid for it.
It's all done through high payroll tax deduction..8% in Austria and 5.25/4.00% in France.
Raise the employee FICA to 15-20% here and you too can have this wonderful healthcare system.
Oh and also have the government get directly involved with costs/reimbursements otherwise it won't work.
And I'd STILL love to get back the $563.52 I pay every month into my health insurance -- and have no deductibles.
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