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Old 11-27-2013, 04:25 PM
 
Location: Itinerant
8,278 posts, read 6,276,391 times
Reputation: 6681

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendell Phillips View Post
No. The Constitution says no such thing - but exactly the opposite. All rights exist by law. Get that through your cold dead head!
Really...

How did we "ordain and establish" something that we had no right to do?

The Constitution was precisely that, if your argument holds water that rights exist by law, then we had no right to ordain and establish anything, as at the time of writing, there was no law in real terms, there were laws of the States, but they did not provide the right to create a superstate of the United States. You can check this out for yourself, look for states consitutions and articles prior to the establishment of the Constitution, or the Articles of Confederation.

By your definition not only is the Constitution null and void, but all other laws pertaining to the constitution, it's instruments, and branches are also null and void.

Or the alternative is that you're wrong, and all rights are above the law, and such rights as are ceded to managed under law may be regulated under that law. If this is indeed the case, then as the right to self defense, and by extension the right to bear arms in self defense was not explicitly ceded, then that right cannot be regulated under law without the agreement of the people.

Which is it? We have an invalid government and document? Or rights are above the law?
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Old 11-27-2013, 05:14 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas,Nevada
9,282 posts, read 6,743,397 times
Reputation: 1531
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendell Phillips View Post
No. The Constitution says no such thing - but exactly the opposite. All rights exist by law. Get that through your cold dead head!
No, they do not, the law and the government can not grant or limit right, because they are not theirs to grant or limit.

This is that the state is the end all but all is a joke and a bad one at that.
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Old 11-27-2013, 05:16 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas,Nevada
9,282 posts, read 6,743,397 times
Reputation: 1531
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmqueen View Post
"Many" times it's a lie? No misogyny there, nosirree.

Prove it.
Once again changing the subject, if you make a claim of abuse you must have evidence.
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Old 11-27-2013, 05:17 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas,Nevada
9,282 posts, read 6,743,397 times
Reputation: 1531
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmqueen View Post
Shall I cite the studies showing that more women don't even bother pressing charges than women who do, largely because of attitudes like yours that prevail in many police and court systems?

Not that you care. You've made up your mind that women are lying, thieving sluts, so evidence to the contrary will be wasted on your and your kind.

And yes, I divorced an abuser. I'd love to add my tales, but the cons here would revel in it and mock me no end, so I decline.
So others should suffer because of your past? Liberalism on display.
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Old 11-27-2013, 05:31 PM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,210,872 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunlover View Post
So others should suffer because of your past? Liberalism on display.
Others should suffer because there are many, many, many cases of real actual domestic violence. Those who do commit the violence shouldn't be excused because every case isn't an actual case of abuse.
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Old 11-27-2013, 06:06 PM
 
34,279 posts, read 19,375,883 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Others should suffer because there are many, many, many cases of real actual domestic violence. Those who do commit the violence shouldn't be excused because every case isn't an actual case of abuse.
So better that a innocent man be punished then we let one go free?
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Old 11-27-2013, 06:09 PM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,210,872 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
So better that a innocent man be punished then we let one go free?
We should quit prosecuting murderer's?

Wrongfully convicted Missouri man freed after decade in jail for murder | World news | theguardian.com
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Old 11-27-2013, 06:14 PM
 
34,279 posts, read 19,375,883 times
Reputation: 17261
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post

Blackstone's formulation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

To wit-better that 10 guilty men go free then 1 innocent man be punished. Its part of the whole "beyond a reasonable doubt" thing that we practice. And thats the thing here....it IS better that some guilty go free-even of murder-in order to avoid punishing the innocent.

And when a statute becomes abused so badly, a lot of innocents are getting hurt by it. Punishing them so that a few that are guilty get punished is immoral.
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Old 11-27-2013, 06:18 PM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,210,872 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
Blackstone's formulation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

To wit-better that 10 guilty men go free then 1 innocent man be punished. Its part of the whole "beyond a reasonable doubt" thing that we practice. And thats the thing here....it IS better that some guilty go free-even of murder-in order to avoid punishing the innocent.
Which is why we have trials. Does the criminal justice system ever get it wrong? Yes, but despite your attempts to appear otherwise you do not support everyone going free for whatever they do because we do on occasion err.
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Old 11-27-2013, 06:33 PM
 
34,279 posts, read 19,375,883 times
Reputation: 17261
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Which is why we have trials. Does the criminal justice system ever get it wrong? Yes, but despite your attempts to appear otherwise you do not support everyone going free for whatever they do because we do on occasion err.
Restraining orders don't initially have trials as they are granted without the other party being present, and a challenge to them takes months. Then they are considered "administrative" . Funny thing that.

The others....yes we have trials, but no the burden of proof often isn't required. Kinda weird hey?

What I support is that if someone is going to have basic rights stripped from them-they should be allowed a jury trial FIRST, or have clear physical evidence. not a he said/she said.

What I support is that the burden of proof should not be on the person losing their rights.

And yes I DO know this will mean people will die. Im not ignorant of that. I don't like it, but I firmly believe that rights are worth some deaths.
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