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Private schools cherry pick their students. As an educator, you surely know this. People send their kids to private schools for many reasons, other than "they have to be better". That is no rationale at all. In point of fact, a friend of mine took her kids out of a highly respected Catholic school b/c the neighbor kids in public school were ahead of them in math. That just goes to show what happens when you really investigate what's going on in private schools. Most of the private high schools do not offer the mix of courses the large public high schools do, e.g. AP courses AND vo-tech, etc.
I really depends on the school system in your community.
Many families move to an area based on the school system as the first priority if they plan to send their kids to public school.
And as far as "being ahead"..that's just a point in time.
The only way to tell if that Catholic school was teaching behind in Math is to look at SAT scores for that school because not every school follows the same curriculum at the same pace.
A linear curriculum vs spiral curriculum will show lots of divergence but end at the same place when they get to senior year in high school.
Your charter schools are providing the privatization needed.
Some perform rather well.
And why shouldn't they cherry pick for either grades or behavior ?
There's reasons why parents put their kids in there to begin with and it's not all about academics.
You need a public K-12 that's paid for by tax dollars else we'll revert to where we started off with the wealthy knowing how to read and add and the rest illiterate.
I really depends on the school system in your community.
Many families move to an area based on the school system as the first priority if they plan to send their kids to public school.
And as far as "being ahead"..that's just a point in time.
The only way to tell if that Catholic school was teaching behind in Math is to look at SAT scores for that school because not every school follows the same curriculum at the same pace.
A linear curriculum vs spiral curriculum will show lots of divergence but end at the same place when they get to senior year in high school.
The SAT scores (or ACT, more popular here) of a class tell you nothing. Here in Colorado, juniors in public high school are required to take the ACT. There is no such requirement of private school students. So you've got an apples to oranges comparison. You can also look at what courses are being offered, and what arrangements are made for kids who have moved beyond the courses that the school offers. Here in CO, public school students can attend classes at the community colleges if there is no course at the HS at a high enough level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan
Your charter schools are providing the privatization needed.
Some perform rather well.
And why shouldn't they cherry pick for either grades or behavior ?
There's reasons why parents put their kids in there to begin with and it's not all about academics.
You need a public K-12 that's paid for by tax dollars else we'll revert to where we started off with the wealthy knowing how to read and add and the rest illiterate.
Are you talking to me? Whose charter schools? Some charters do well, some have folded. Some have test scores no higher than the neighborhood schools. I do agree with your last statement. That's what we had in medieval times; I guess that's what some people here on CD want.
1) Go back to flunking kids who need to be flunked, not passed meritoriously to preserve their self-esteem.
2) Allow schools to remove hoodlums and troublemakers from the midst of the remaining 98-99% of the kids who actually want to learn. And expulsion should be from an entire system, not just one school. Have a dedicated school for troublemakers like they used to have when I was a kid, where all the expelled kids went for their last chance before GED glory.
3) Make school voluntary. Forced attendance is retarded. If you follow suggestion 1, and just flunk kids who fail, who cares if they show up or not? Colleges don't care if you pay and don't show up. They just kick you out when your grades suck bad enough. Why don't public schools work the exact same way?
Do all three of the above, and public schools would be right back in the competitive mix with private schools because the hoodlums, flunkies and truants would disappear from the public school's student body just like they do from the private school's.
Bottom line, at the left 5-10% of the bell curve, there are just kids who are hellbound and determined to be total screwups. LET THEM BE, but let them be on their own time and get them out of the way of the vast majority of kids who actually want to learn things and go to college and all that.
Again, if a school is private, then it's a business. It would naturally make prices affordable, so the prices will be driven down.
Affordable means different things to different people.
A private company could pay part timers minimum wage to contain 100 kids in a locked room to make it affordable. Maybe they could pray when they are not trying to kill each other. That room costs money to rent, clean, cool/heat and insure. Maybe parents would be willing to clean up after their kids. I guess toilet facilities would be helpful, unless it's a BYO bucket arrangement. If kids don't bring their own lunch, it sucks to be them. Then there's the whole dang peanut thing. I guess kids who are sensitive/allergic to stuff or need special medical attention during the school day are best off at home with or without a parent.
No need for a school nurse. If a kid needs medical attention, just call 911 and let someone else pay for the ride to the ER and stabilization.
Forget about silly accreditation because that assumes there is a common government standard and people who are paid to make sure schools are in compliance.
I am aware of what is going on in Japan and other countries. As I stated the current school models have issues. Your statement was simply inaccurate. I don't agree with your overly biased statement which simply doesn't address all the issues.
Oh but they are trying to do that very thing.
Social education is starting to take precedence over academic education in many schools.
The more disadvantaged schools have social workers with their own offices where the kids can go anytime during the day. And some of these kids use it just to get out of class.
I had one student miss 10 straight days of classes because they "had to go see Ms.XXXX" and I had to let them go. After the 10th day I called Ms XXXX who promptly told me that child had "issues" and seeing her was more important than attending my class
And I had to pass the student. Yes, this student is just getting passed through the K-12 system as I wasn't alone in this situation with this student.
I purposely have gone into the lower SES schools to help.
But your hands are so tied there's not a lot you can do without getting slapped down by the administrators.
Low SES schools are night and day compared to your typical middle class suburban schools.
I could tell you stories that you'd swear I was making up.
Comparing scores to state wide or nationalized public school performance seems to be a low bar.
Why not compare and contrast to the highest achieving public schools?
The public schools administer the same standardized test. The home schooled students out score even the highest achieving public schools students. Isn't that what I said? I thought I was pretty clear.
MAM. Think you need to be more specific about your criteria. It is vague. HS is relatively new, as well.
Home schooling is not new. It has been around for at least 30 years (probably more) to a very high degree. We started home schooling ours in .... hmmmm ... 1988 maybe? I can't remember now. But they were very young.
But, I agree with you about the previous post. I'm not sure what she missed. The test required for home schoolers is the same one that the public schools administer. It doesn't matter. Home school students out score the public school students by a mile. The highest performing public school student is still way behind any home schooled student (on average). I'm sure one could find a few cases of home schooled students that don't exceed the standard of public school kids; but, they would be an exception.
dad died in 1997 and mom in 2009. so no I do not think I have seen my parents lately.
LOL I'm not sure what the point was that the previous poster was trying to make!
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