70 Years of US Bases in UK & Europe: Time to Stay or Time To Go. (death, borders)
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The fact is is that NO first world country will ever attack another first world country. Militaries are simply for action in 3rd world countries. Nukes made war too costly for any major power.
Probably a bunch could be turned over to the nations concerned w/o a big loss in our security. Our bloated defense budget needs some trimming. Especially the parts that defend nothing but enrich contractors at taxpayer expense.
Again, who are we as Americans to tell them what to do with their welfare state?
That's not our business. Nor is it our business whether or not they can adequate defend themselves. Our business is to LEAVE and let them worry about what level of defense they need.
They aren't the ones running around the world meddling in everyone else's affairs...we are. Therefore they don't need a similar military posture as us.
I see no reason why they should end their cradle to grave social system in exchange for this ridiculous American ideal of turning over their budgets to their defense departments. That's ridiculous.
Only Americans think like that. And what has it gotten us? Nothing but grief and failed wars.
Wrong yet once again. Europe is able to have this absurd welfare state because they know they have us to defend them. Why should we defend them? Why shouldent they have to carry the burden of defending themselves?
Once upon a time even tiny little Belgium was able to project power (albeit on a small scale) anywhere in the world. Today the NYPD marine unit has more force projection than the Royal Belgian "Navy". Tiny Portugal was the world's first and last colonial power with colonies in Africa, India, and Asia that lasted longer than any other colonial empire - until the "return" of Macau to China in 1999. Some 3rd world nations in Africa and Latin America have more force projection. Even the Cubans have the ability to deploy a significant amount of troops and material overseas (Africa 1970s-90s).
Why are they still here and who are they defending us from????
Unfortunately we still have Nato, a perfect pretext for people to be here that shouldn't be here.
Although I like some American individuals, and some movies, TV programs and songs, as a whole I totally dislike the US as a country, a horrible country for decades. And I would be very happy if all Americans except tourists, students etc. finally left our continent. They have been overstaying way too long. This would also remove Europe from the target list of terrorists, on which we only are because of the US.
Sure, the few people who live in those towns where the bases are located don't want such changes for mere egoistic financial reasons, but if there were a Europe-wide referendum today, the vast majority of Europeans would vote in favor of Americans leaving. Unfortunately, we have politicians both on the national and EU level that don't represent what citizens want, traitors like Merkel and Barroso.
I think the EU is a total failure, we should end the economic union and instead become a union only in terms of military and defense, which would allow us to leave Nato and also to keep European countries from fighting each other, which has always been the pretext for the economic union. So far it is the other way round however, we have the economic union that hardly anyone wants anymore, but in terms of defense there is no common policy, every country has its own agenda, which is ridiculous.
Ultimately, we should look towards the East, i.e. care more about our neighbor Russia and even China. In the long run a Eurasian geopolitical union might be interesting, spanning from Lisbon to Shanghai
Wrong yet once again. Europe is able to have this absurd welfare state because they know they have us to defend them. Why should we defend them? Why shouldent they have to carry the burden of defending themselves?
Really???
Firstly who are you defending us from exactly, the Russians, a country with a population of 143 million which is predicted to fall to around 100 million by the end of the century and which currently spends 4.4% GDP on Defence although this still only equates to $90 Billion, which doesn't even match the $120 Billion joint Defence spending of Britain and France, never mind the EU which spends $274 Billion on defence, which equates to an average of 1.7% GDP, which is the same as many other countries across the world such as Australia, Canada or other such countries, and a good deal more than most countries. EU Defence spending accounts for nearly a quarter of all global military expenditure.
France doesn't have any US bases and they still have all of those things. The US only has 30,000 troops stationed in Europe, most in Germany with a brigade also in Italy, the US also maintains a handful of front line USAF bases and a Naval Support Activity in Italy to support US Naval Operations in the mediterranean and middle east.
A lot of the soldiers based in Germany are involved in supporting US operations globally, as is the US Military Hospital there and the USAF bases alsop support global operations.
The US also maintains a number of spy bases in Europe.
Most US bases are for the Unites States own benefit rather than Europes.
A 2009 Report by the EU Institute of Strategic Studies Report showed that the number of Main Battle Tanks held by the members of the EU was 9,800, with a mere 7,951 Armoured Fighting Vehicles and a paltry 22,844 Armoured Personnel Carriers and over 2 million Regular Service Personnel and even greater numbers of reserve force. Whilst EU Defence spending accounts for nearly a quarter of global defence expenditure.
Whilst I am sure THE 30,000 American Soldiers in Europe with 29 tanks, and the USAF with a handful of frontline aircraft and other meager US military assets in Europe are well meaning and do a good job, they are hardly defending us. As for US NSA spy bases they are far less well meaning.
Firstly who are you defending us from exactly, the Russians, a country with a population of 143 million which is predicted to fall to around 100 million by the end of the century and which currently spends 4.4% GDP on Defence although this still only equates to $90 Billion, which doesn't even match the $120 Billion joint Defence spending of Britain and France, never mind the EU which spends $274 Billion on defence, which equates to an average of 1.7% GDP, which is the same as many other countries across the world such as Australia, Canada or other such countries, and a good deal more than most countries. EU Defence spending accounts for nearly a quarter of all global military expenditure.
The term defense is a joke today, in the US it should be called DoO instead of DoD...
Nato's "Defense" is the reason why dubious guys like Putin are still in power as Russians see things the way they are, i.e. they know it is about an Offense against them, thus they support a strong leader even if that brings about certain undemocratic side effects.
The fact is is that NO first world country will ever attack another first world country. Militaries are simply for action in 3rd world countries. Nukes made war too costly for any major power.
Correct. Totally spot on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WIHS2006
Wrong yet once again. Europe is able to have this absurd welfare state because they know they have us to defend them. Why should we defend them? Why shouldent they have to carry the burden of defending themselves?
Once upon a time even tiny little Belgium was able to project power (albeit on a small scale) anywhere in the world. Today the NYPD marine unit has more force projection than the Royal Belgian "Navy". Tiny Portugal was the world's first and last colonial power with colonies in Africa, India, and Asia that lasted longer than any other colonial empire - until the "return" of Macau to China in 1999. Some 3rd world nations in Africa and Latin America have more force projection. Even the Cubans have the ability to deploy a significant amount of troops and material overseas (Africa 1970s-90s).
First of all, whose fault is it that Americans are stupid enough to defend Europe while they lavish their citizens with their nation's resources?
We could do the cradle to grave thing too...but we buy tanks, planes, guns and ships instead.
Just because we're a stupid nation, doesn't mean they should follow us
They have no interest in chasing the Taliban and Al Qaeda all over the world. Again...They aren't stupid.
Unfortunately we still have Nato, a perfect pretext for people to be here that shouldn't be here.
Although I like some American individuals, and some movies, TV programs and songs, as a whole I totally dislike the US as a country, a horrible country for decades. And I would be very happy if all Americans except tourists, students etc. finally left our continent. They have been overstaying way too long. This would also remove Europe from the target list of terrorists, on which we only are because of the US.
Sure, the few people who live in those towns where the bases are located don't want such changes for mere egoistic financial reasons, but if there were a Europe-wide referendum today, the vast majority of Europeans would vote in favor of Americans leaving. Unfortunately, we have politicians both on the national and EU level that don't represent what citizens want, traitors like Merkel and Barroso.
I think the EU is a total failure, we should end the economic union and instead become a union only in terms of military and defense, which would allow us to leave Nato and also to keep European countries from fighting each other, which has always been the pretext for the economic union. So far it is the other way round however, we have the economic union that hardly anyone wants anymore, but in terms of defense there is no common policy, every country has its own agenda, which is ridiculous.
Ultimately, we should look towards the East, i.e. care more about our neighbor Russia and even China. In the long run a Eurasian geopolitical union might be interesting, spanning from Lisbon to Shanghai
I bet the Ukraine wished it had a US military base....
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Time to Stay or Time To Go
