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Old 12-01-2007, 12:28 PM
 
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The usual criticism is that various Israeli interests, through groups like AIPAC, have a massively disproportionate impact on American politics. However, some Israeli commentators in publications such as the newspaper Haaretz have pointed out that a variety of American interests - from neoconservative think tanks to evangelical megachurch leaders like John Hagee - have used their money and influence to distort domestic politics in Israel.

They point out first of all that most Israelis are secular and not very religious at all, and that many American interests are uncomfortable with this - they seek to fund and empower the outspoken devout religious fringes of Israeli society. Many American interests oppose peace negotiations with the Palestinians to a much greater degree than Israelis themselves - Israelis, by and large, don't look at the Palestinian situation through a lens of religious or ideological dogmatism. They tend to be more pragmatic.

But this doesn't necessarily fit the narratives of certain American groups, and they try to strengthen ideologically-driven groups in Israel which oppose peace negotiations as a matter of principle, rather than pragmatic reason. A lot of the 'Friends of Israel'-style campaigns run by evangelical groups in the US are linked up with marginal but very vocal Israeli groups with views outside of the Israeli mainstream. It would be more accurate to call these groups 'Friends of the Israeli Fringe.'

This also has a feedback effect, as these very vocal American groups try to speak in the US 'for Israel', or try to describe 'what Israelis want' in terms of what the fringe wants. AIPAC itself has quite a few vicious critics in Israel.

So, as much as Israel may seem to distort our politics, is it fair to say that we are distorting theirs quite a bit more?
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Old 12-01-2007, 02:30 PM
 
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Excellent question and I suppose it depends on who you ask. I have a dear friend named Ravvi in Jerusalem who also happens to be a political blogger and writer. He and I have engaged in some pretty heated debates and to my surprise he has often told me that many in Israel would rather not have US foreign aid due to the constraints it holds them to. In his view, he wishes that the US would just remain an ally but with no aid, so that Israel would be free to handle their issues in the Middle East without having to consult with the US every time they do.

I am willing to bet however that there are many who feel otherwise.

Israel is in a precarious predicament, as its relationship with the US is both a curse and a blessing.
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Old 12-01-2007, 04:32 PM
 
Location: Journey's End
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Bill Moyer had a terrific program last night: edifying and eye-opening on this very queston and from both the Jewish perspective and the Evangelical POV. I posted a query about one of the speakers in R&P. Didn't get much of a response.
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Old 12-01-2007, 06:51 PM
 
Location: Pa
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I dont know how much we interfere. But I would say that we tend to ignore a great many issues around Israel. We tend to turn a blind eye to Israels overly aggressive responces to her neighbors. We tend to forgive when they are caught spying on us and selling the the info to our enemies. I would say that they receive way to much financial aide from us and that we get very little positive return. I would say we are paying dearly for our near unconditional support of what many deam a rogue nation.
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Old 12-01-2007, 07:00 PM
 
Location: Sacramento
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
I dont know how much we interfere. But I would say that we tend to ignore a great many issues around Israel. We tend to turn a blind eye to Israels overly aggressive responces to her neighbors. We tend to forgive when they are caught spying on us and selling the the info to our enemies. I would say that they receive way to much financial aide from us and that we get very little positive return. I would say we are paying dearly for our near unconditional support of what many deam a rogue nation.
The OP asks about the impact on Israel, not vice versa.
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Old 12-01-2007, 07:18 PM
 
Location: Pa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewToCA View Post
The OP asks about the impact on Israel, not vice versa.
I will say that we do tend to jerk their chain when they get heavy handed. Their actions reflect upon us, and its in our interests not to let them push to hard. But in answer to the original question I would say no, we dont interfere to much with their politics. Israel pretty much ignores us except when they want more money.
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Old 12-01-2007, 07:34 PM
 
Location: Land of Thought and Flow
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Personally, I don't think we should be this involved in any other country but our own.

It could be the result of a large number of (rich) Jewish lobbyists twisting the ties of our government...

As a result of the strong US backing, Israel has become too aggressive. They'd rather bomb cities vice coming to peaceful agreements.
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Old 12-01-2007, 07:39 PM
 
Location: Journey's End
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Actually, the Evangelicals are as much if not more involved in lobbying DC on behalf of Israel than the (rich) Jewish lobbyists.
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Old 12-01-2007, 07:42 PM
 
Location: southern california
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this is a very good post. usa gives a lot of financial aid to israel. but on the other hand at this point usa does not have many friends. now is not a time to back out of this one. i think that israel got ripped off on the gaza. they made good their promise land for peace. arabs broke the deal, israel should be their land back.
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Old 12-01-2007, 10:26 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,300 posts, read 22,276,339 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunky39 View Post
this is a very good post. usa gives a lot of financial aid to israel. but on the other hand at this point usa does not have many friends. now is not a time to back out of this one. i think that israel got ripped off on the gaza. they made good their promise land for peace. arabs broke the deal, israel should be their land back.
Israel kept good in what way? They tear down homes of innocent people in an effort to turn palestinians against the terrorists. This has the opposite effect as it would anywhere else in the world.
Let us not forget the cost of our alliance with Israel. Because we shelter them from the consequences of their bad deeds we are in the crosshairs. We foot them a ton of money, state of the art weapons, and in return they spy on us and sell the secrets.
If anything our indulgence has in fact affected their politics. As long as we remain their sugar daddy and protect them from the wrath of the world they will never feel a need to adapt. In other words they feel no need to commit to peace.
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