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Old 02-16-2014, 01:38 PM
 
Location: Long Island
57,405 posts, read 26,407,645 times
Reputation: 15709

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There are many states that have issues covering pensions, time to change the system. If you look at the download on the website below you will see how some states like Kentucky are making progress with a cash balance plan. Many states are just using one-shots and short term plans to get through the next election but the problem with unfunded liabilities persists.

Quote:

More than $1 trillion in unfunded pension promises made to current and
retired government employees are placing a strain on state and local budgets,
prompting policymakers across the country to take a closer look at alternative
ways to design a retirement plan.


A number of states and municipalities have made the move to a pension design
called a cash balance plan.


Well-designed cash balance plans, like traditional defined benefit or defined
contribution plans, can help government employers meet their recruitment and
retention goals.


They offer the following key elements needed to help employees
achieve a secure retirement:


  • Fully funded retirement benefits;
  • Access to professionally managed, low-fee, pooled investments with
    appropriate asset allocations; and
  • Access to lifetime income options, or annuities.

All public employees deserve a secure retirement. States need a fair set of
solutions that will make their retirement system financially sustainable in the
long run.
Public Pension Cash Balance Plans - The Pew Charitable Trusts
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Old 02-16-2014, 01:43 PM
 
Location: Ohio
24,620 posts, read 19,242,384 times
Reputation: 21745
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon View Post
The worker's unions supported this poor policy and the union refused to allow it to be fixed. How much blame belongs to the workers for not telling their union to be responsible?
100%.

In fact every Detroit resident is responsible.

There are consequences for making bad decisions, and what you're going to see for a long time to come, is these very bad decisions coming around to smack people in the face.

It's true what they say, you know, power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Cities -- municipalities -- are a great idea, so long as everyone stays in their lane.

Basic economics...it's everywhere you are. After you've been working all day long, when you go home, do you want to spend 4 hours on fire watch? And then 4 hours playing town constable? Do you want to dig ditches and pour concrete?

When would you ever have a minute of free-time for yourself?

There's a better way.

You and others in your community each chip in $0.25/day and then hire others to provide the services you need or want, like police, fire, safety, road maintenance etc etc etc.

So this is a matter of Opportunity Costs -- what is it worth to you to have 10-16 hours of free-time every day where you can pursue your hobbies and other interests? But there's still the matter of contracting and arranging --- coordinating -- the services you need. That could take up a lot of your time as well, and worse, you may have to take a day off work and lose pay in order to meet with companies willing to provide services to you. And if no one is an attorney or has legal skills, the contracts could mess with your head.

There's a better way. Choose people -- appoint or elect them -- to represent you and empower them to negotiate and enter into contracts on your behalf to provide the services you need.

That is sole purpose and function of municipalities.

That is not Socialism, rather that is Capitalism -- private persons control the Capital.

It only becomes Socialism when the people you choose to represent you over-step their boundaries and start providing those services to you, instead of arranging and contracting the services that you need. Because you see at that point, it is government who owns the Capital -- the snow plows, salt trucks, highway maintenance vehicles and whatever else they have....including Labor.

And even that wouldn't be so bad, except that here comes a Soviet-style Command Group, like unions, who start dictating the price of Labor, which is always far higher than what the Market bears. The Market says a guy who rides a bush-hog and cuts down high weeds gets paid $16/hour, but then your Soviet-style Command Group demands he be paid $26/hour and then another $26/hour in benefits like sick days, vacation pay, pension and stuff on top of that.

You end up paying $52/hour for a job that's only worth $16/hour and then no one can figure why cities are bankrupt or why residents flee high tax rates.

It is impossible to escape the penalty when the Laws of Economics are violated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
Anyone want to explain how the Social Security trust fund is any different?
It's an insurance plan, not a pension plan.

Are you talking about solvency?

That's the beauty of unfunded liabilities.

That money....it is coming out of your economy, one way or another.

That's why I advocate Austerity. It's just like a Plea Bargain. Would you rather do Life with no parole, or 15-25 with the possibility of parole at 12 years?

If Austerity is undertaken now, it will be unpleasant, but at least you can control it it, and implement it in such a way as to minimize economic damage. If you wait, then Austerity will be forced and it will be severe.

It's like the Free Trade Agreements -- those jobs are gone and you can't stop it. Your choice is lose 7 Million jobs, or sign the Free Trade Agreement and lose 2.5 Million....but one way or another you're going to lose jobs.

Same with Social Security. The Silent Generation was slammed with 520% FICA tax increase to make sure Social Security would be there for them.

The Boomers suffered a 71% FICA tax increase to make sure Social Security would be there for them.

How much of a FICA tax increase was dumped on Generation X-Box and Generation Y-Work?

0%.

Instead of 2% FICA payroll tax reduction, Obama should have increased it to 8.2%.

This is an unprecedented 23rd Year without a FICA payroll tax increase. If it ain't 9.0%-9.2% by December 2016 you're all hopelessly utterly screwed.

Just crunching some numbers, my best estimate is that Boomers created/maintained 19 Million to 22 Million jobs in your economy solely based on their life-style and spending patterns.

As Boomers retire, you will permanently lose a few Million jobs over a period of about 10-12 years. Increase the FICA payroll tax in steps, and it will cost a few Million jobs. Wait until the last minute, or cut benefits, you'll lose triple the amount of jobs...permanently.

See what you got to look forward to? And the best America can come up with is Billary and Palin. I'd be looking real hard into emigrating to another State.

Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
It not uncommon for some municipalities in some states to be seriously underfunded, while the state looks reasonably good, and vice -versa. Michigan is not in that bad of shape compared to most states.
Yes, that is quite true and most troubling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
The general voting public does not react well to municipal strikes. They want their schools open, their trash picked-up and their public transport ( if any) to function and for their Police and Firefighters not to come down with the flu at the same time.
And the solution to that is elect officials who will fire them all.

Civic-mindedly....

Mircea
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Old 02-16-2014, 03:06 PM
 
27,306 posts, read 16,281,230 times
Reputation: 12102
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
Michigan won't be the only place with these problems when it's all said and done.
Vallejo already went under, Sacramento is teetering on the edge.
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Old 02-16-2014, 03:58 PM
 
56,988 posts, read 35,313,377 times
Reputation: 18824
Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
Nope, long ago the private economy went to the 401K. Kinda sucked for me I would have reached my 85 points needed to get my pension with 60 percent of my former pay from Union Carbide last year. Of course Union Carbide is history and company pensions are headed in that direction. Public employees are just now beginning to undergo what us private company employees have been undergoing for 30 years.
I'm always sorry to hear when a working man like yourself gets stiffed. SMH...wow.

Did Union Carbide take care of their executives on their way out the door? Wouldn't be surprised if they did.
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Old 02-16-2014, 04:02 PM
 
2,727 posts, read 2,844,641 times
Reputation: 4114
If you think detroit is bad, check out Puerto Rico, Detroit was able to file for bankruptcy to restructure their obligations, Puerto Rico does not.
And before you ask why the hell you care about Puerto Rico....1)it's a us territory so the federal gov't isn't going to sit by and watch it implode, 2) it's a HUGE issuer in the municipal bond market, and your retirement accounts likely hold it
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Old 02-16-2014, 04:44 PM
 
Location: Long Island
57,405 posts, read 26,407,645 times
Reputation: 15709
These pension funds had historic returns since 2008, many of them were in the stock funds were in the 30-40% range for 2013. States that still have unfunded liabilities with this type of market are headed for some rather large problems, bankruptcy is right around the corner.
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Old 02-16-2014, 05:00 PM
 
56,988 posts, read 35,313,377 times
Reputation: 18824
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-310 View Post
Vallejo already went under, Sacramento is teetering on the edge.
Tip of the iceberg.

That's nothing compared to what's coming once damn near every baby boomer calls it quits.
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Old 02-16-2014, 05:27 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,699,776 times
Reputation: 27720
Maybe Obama will find more unused money in DC and send it to them ?
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Old 02-16-2014, 05:28 PM
 
56,988 posts, read 35,313,377 times
Reputation: 18824
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Maybe Obama will find more unused money in DC and send it to them ?
Better there than Afghanistan.
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Old 02-16-2014, 06:00 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,665 posts, read 20,019,896 times
Reputation: 7315
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
Better there than Afghanistan.
Better still would be to treat pensions just like any other creditor. If there is 4 cents on the dollar left in the pool, pay out 4% of the full value. No more, no less.
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