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Sorry but why exactly should a cop lose his life if some kids trying to kill them? And yes I CAN believe that 3 cops could have a problem with a teenager thats lost his mind. Its a LOT easier when they dont have a weapon.
Was the cop wrong? Maybe. Was he right? Maybe. And thats the problem. This is not clear cut. And when it gets grey like that and the distribution of the results is going to vary.
Yes we have bad cops, but im not seeing anything here that screams bad cop.
Do you know the size of the child being discussed?
Also. What about other professionals who deal with the mentally ill?
Nurses and Orderlies in mental health units seem to deal with such people without shooting them on a daily basis, so this reflects badly on the police, their training and their ability to deal with situations. Perhaps police officers would benefit from being seconded (unarmed) to mental health units in order to meet with staff and to see how they deal with such people on a daily basis.
Nurses and Orderlies in mental health units seem to deal with such people without shooting them on a daily basis, so this reflects badly on the police, their training and their ability to deal with situations. Perhaps police officers would benefit from being seconded (unarmed) to mental health units in order to meet with staff and to see how they deal with such people on a daily basis.
And usually there is about four-six orderlies who tend to be former NFL linebackers or other huge people who were trained to deal with such matters. Notice I said four-six that is for one person mininum. Often you see ten or twenty called to deal with a single person. Someone who is really violent the psych ward will call the police because they don't want the orderlies killed. Also the orderlies do tend to get injured. With bite marks or have been stabbed.
Also despite what people think, most cops are not trained in hand to hand. Nor are fit. It takes months if not years of constant training to do hand to hand. Most cops most of their is paperwork. They don't have the time to do the required workouts to keep the hand to hand training optimal.
Hell shooting a gun and being accurate is more difficult then people think. Most people cannot hit the broadside of a barn even with a scope and a lasersight. This is the reason that police training sessions at the range use hundreds of thousands of rounds of ammo each year . Because it takes a lot of firing their guns to keep their accuracy to decent standards.
It's why gang members in shootouts tend to be the ones that wind up died because they cannot hit anything with their handguns because they don't go to the range every few weeks or months to shoot a hundred to several hundred rounds through their handgun at a target at various different distances.
And usually there is about four-six orderlies who tend to be former NFL linebackers or other huge people who were trained to deal with such matters. Notice I said four-six that is for one person mininum. Often you see ten or twenty called to deal with a single person. Someone who is really violent the psych ward will call the police because they don't want the orderlies killed. Also the orderlies do tend to get injured. With bite marks or have been stabbed.
The vast majority of people with mental illness are not violent, and in terms of those that are they do not gain some form of super strength, they are just normal people who do not require NFL linebackers as you put it. Mental Health Teams operate in most countries and increasingly mental health professionals patrol with police, operate advice services and support teams for the police and medical professionals are increasingly being used in police custody centres.
In terms of the US has a lack of mental health beds and services even compared to other countries and this may be part of the problem. In terms of dealing with the mentally ill, most police services around the world even without the help of mental health professionals, detain people often with severe mental health problems including large adult males without resorting to shooting them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by d from birmingham
Also despite what people think, most cops are not trained in hand to hand. Nor are fit. It takes months if not years of constant training to do hand to hand. Most cops most of their is paperwork. They don't have the time to do the required workouts to keep the hand to hand training optimal.
Why aren't Cops trained in basic self defence and restraint procedures, I would have thought that would have been mandatory. Furthermore why aren't US Police Departments more integrated with and coordinated with, local mental health services and emergency health response in the shape of paramedics or doctors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by d from birmingham
Hell shooting a gun and being accurate is more difficult then people think. Most people cannot hit the broadside of a barn even with a scope and a lasersight. This is the reason that police training sessions at the range use hundreds of thousands of rounds of ammo each year . Because it takes a lot of firing their guns to keep their accuracy to decent standards.
It's why gang members in shootouts tend to be the ones that wind up died because they cannot hit anything with their handguns because they don't go to the range every few weeks or months to shoot a hundred to several hundred rounds through their handgun at a target at various different distances.
Yes but we are not taking about gang members, armed robbers or a hardened criminal but an unarmed boy who weighed only 90 lbs and was five feet tall suffering a schizophrenic episode. If the police couldn't deal with the situation then why didn't they call for back up or a doctor/paramedics to come and sedate the boy. To be honest, putting mentally ill people in to police cells isn't ideal in the first place and many other countries such as the UK are trying to improve mental health services and agreements with mental health organisations in order to reduce the number of mentally ill people being kept in police cells.
Why aren't Cops trained in basic self defence and restraint procedures, I would have thought that would have been mandatory. Furthermore why aren't US Police Departments more integrated with and coordinated with, local mental health services and emergency health response in the shape of paramedics or doctors.
As noted they are but you have to retrain them constantly otherwise the skill and training atrophies. It doesn't retain. Cops spend most of their day and overtime on paperwork. Meaning they have no time to do the training required. Also there is no money put forward. Would rather the police do patrols, do what they have to do with the resources they have or get further depleted?
Quote:
If the police couldn't deal with the situation then why didn't they call for back up or a doctor/paramedics to come and sedate the boy.
It takes time for backup to arrive. Sedating by needle can often be fatal and for some reason is frowned upon by liberals.
As noted they are but you have to retrain them constantly otherwise the skill and training atrophies. It doesn't retain. Cops spend most of their day and overtime on paperwork. Meaning they have no time to do the training required. Also there is no money put forward. Would rather the police do patrols, do what they have to do with the resources they have or get further depleted?
Basic restraint techniques are hardly rocket science, and surely the best thing to do is to encourage better partnerships between the police, paramedics and mental health services in order to deal with such situations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by d from birmingham
It takes time for backup to arrive. Sedating by needle can often be fatal and for some reason is frowned upon by liberals.
It might take time for back up to arrive but it's better than shooting someone, and the police in the UK routinely call for paramedics and extra officers if they believe someone to be significantly mentally disturbed.
In terms of sedatives, people are sedated all the time by paramedics dealing with injuries and sedatives/tranquillisers are often used in mental health units, both oral and injection for those undergoing psychotic episodes. In terms of paramedics their response should actually be quite rapid, as they are an emergency blue light service in every country.
I don't remember reading about any officers getting stabbed. I also thought I read (again, assumptions, gotta go back and research this one) where one of the officers was not in support of the 3rd officer shooting the kid. I was under the impression he was pretty much restrained by the time officer arrived.
I forget the kid's age, but he was a pretty small kid 5'2" 110lbs?? and he had schizophrenia.
It's a tragedy no matter how you look at it. There's way too many people being killed at the hands of the Police. I don't think the parents would be putting up such a fight if they felt the shooting was justified.
I just remember what was said on the evening news. I'm sure everyone wishes there had been a different outcome.
Probably when they lowered the restrictions on size, weight and strength
to let women pass the physicals to be a cop.
If people can't physically do the job without resorting to firearms, then they shouldn't be in the job in the first place.
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