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Also, what is the difference between a straight wedding cake and a gay wedding cake?
The Bible clearly states that fornication is wrong. If the straight couple wanting a wedding cake have been involved in fornication, why should the religious baker serve them, too, unless he or she finds fornication a less extreme and easier to forgive sin? Surely the fornicators will be easier to forgive, since unlike the homosexuals, the won't be living in sin once married.
I don't see the relevancy of the post. We are discussing whether there is a federal law that trumps AZ law with respect to discrimination. Please refer to the post above that quotes from the Civil Rights Act. This is not a matter that is unclear. One can not discriminate in AZ or anywhere else on the basis of race among other things.
This bill would allow race based discrimination under Arizona law if done based upon religious belief. That it's against federal law would be an issue between the racist discriminator and the feds.
(And the feds don't always press issues - case in point: I can buy recreational marijuana from a retail store less than 1 mile from where I am right now).
Quote:
One can discriminate all he feels like against gays in AZ. You do not have to serve them NOW, etc, etc if you don't want to. Bakers do not have to bake, photographers do not have to photograph. They can simply say "I won't serve gays.". There is no anti-discrimination statutue in AZ. This new law has no purpose in that regard. The bill would give them a religious get of jail free card, but the fact is they don't need that at all. They are free to discriminate without justification as it now stands.
This law does have purpose in the gay discrimination regard. While there are no statewide protections for gay people in Arizona (except the state can't discriminate in hiring/firing public employees based on sexual orientation), many municipalities prohibit discrimination in private employment, housing, and public accommodation based on sexual orientation (including Phoenix - the largest city in Arizona). This law would give religious people in these municipalities the special right* to discriminate against gay people by providing them an affirmative defense against their municipal law.
*(special since non-religious people would not have the right to do the same)
First off, in most of Arizona it is currently perfectly legal to put a "No Gays Allowed" sign in front of your business and to accordingly deny service to gay people. Certain cities in Arizona outlaw this though.
What if the gay person deceives the businessman by not letting on that he or she is gay? Is the gay person subject to being fined, once found out?
Huh? What preferential treatment do gays get without this law?
This proposed Arizona law, however, gives special rights to the religious. It lets religious people legally discriminate, but does not allow non-religious people to discriminate in the same way.
Excellent point. I think the main intent of the law is to encourage gay people to please stay in the closet. The law allows the bigoted religious person to reason "I can serve you as long as I don't have to know you're a homosexual."
The part that everyone howled most about the "show me your papers" provision was upheld by the Supreme Court. In any case, we both know none of it was ever enforced. It was an expensive black eye for the state without any consequence with respect to illegal immigration. This law would have much the same outcome in the unlikely event it is signed into law.
Illegal immigration should not be respected. It's illegal!
First no true Christian can hate homosexuals. It's about loving people regardless of their sinful lifestyle.
There is no cherry picking in my post. He brought up tattoos and pants. None of those things have anything to do with this discussion, nor are they forbidden. Study the Bible or ask someone who does to explain it to you. He took it out of context.
I do think that some Christian's do cherry pick though, I agree. For example I don't like it when I hear other Christians blaming the destruction of the sanctity of marriage on gays. Sorry but it was us, not them. Us heterosexual destroyed marriage with our Adultery and divorces and abortions. Not gay people.
I think Adultery and Divorce is a bigger problem than gay Marriages.
Not forbidden?
Deuteronomy 22:5
“A woman shall not wear a man's garment, nor shall a man put on a woman's cloak, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord your God.
Leviticus 19:28 (Amplified) “Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print or tattoo any marks upon you: I am the Lord.”
Checkmate.
Perhaps it's you who should study the bible. Ask someone to explain it to you.
Deuteronomy 22:5
“A woman shall not wear a man's garment, nor shall a man put on a woman's cloak, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord your God.
Leviticus 19:28 (Amplified) “Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print or tattoo any marks upon you: I am the Lord.”
Checkmate.
Perhaps it's you who should study the bible.
Oh, but that's all changed somehow in the NT with Jesus and because we want to do it!!
The Bible clearly states that fornication is wrong. If the straight couple wanting a wedding cake have been involved in fornication, why should the religious baker serve them,
This goes beyond a special order on a cake. As written it could be used to prevent a gay person buying a stick of gum or getting served in a restaurant.
http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/51leg/2r/bills/sb1062p.pdf
2. "Exercise of religion" means the PRACTICE OR OBSERVANCE OF
9 RELIGION, INCLUDING THE ability to act or refusal to act in a manner
10 substantially motivated by a religious belief, whether or not the exercise is
11 compulsory or central to a larger system of religious belief.
I can't figure out why people are oblivious to this!
Because so many business people can't in many cases know who they're dealing with is a homosexual, so they are helpless in regards to exercising the right to discriminate against them.
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