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Old 03-15-2014, 10:37 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles County, CA
29,094 posts, read 25,999,446 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Egbert View Post
VAWA is constitutional. Article 1 clearly gives the congress the power to spend to promote the general welfare.
The "general welfare" reference is in the same sentence as "common defense".

Harrier doesn't think that the people who signed the Constitution defined general welfare as do you.
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Old 03-15-2014, 10:40 AM
 
1,825 posts, read 1,418,688 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
The "general welfare" reference is in the same sentence as "common defense".

Harrier doesn't think that the people who signed the Constitution defined general welfare as do you.
I think the people who wrote the constitution left it up to Congress to define general welfare in that clause, as such if congress passes a spending or tax law to promote general welfare, I would think that I would be Constitutional so in most cases, including VAWA. I just think most conservatives don't really care about domestic violence enough to prioritize it
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Old 03-15-2014, 10:42 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles County, CA
29,094 posts, read 25,999,446 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Egbert View Post
I think the people who wrote the constitution left it up to Congress to define general welfare, as such if congress passes a spending or tax law about general welfare spending, I would think that I would be Constitutional so in most cases, including VAWA. I just think most conservatives don't really care about domestic violence enough to prioritize it
They created a limited federal government with specific congressional powers.

Never in their wildest dreams would they imagine that one day Congress would pass a law that regulates what occurs in private homes.

Domestic violence is a local issue, and not in the federal government's purview.
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Old 03-15-2014, 12:01 PM
 
12,270 posts, read 11,325,731 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Egbert View Post
So I take it that means you oppose the violence against women act and all the federal protections it grants to domestic violence victims.
The left needs to quit dinking around and 'fess up to what they're really trying to do.

With Hillary the probable heir to Obama, millions of Republicans currently labeled racist by the left are suddenly going to be labeled sexist.

So the left is starting early, creating the meme, setting the table or astroturfing or whatever you want to call it with ridiculous threads like this one or more obvious attempts such as banning the word bossy when describing women.

The next two years is going to be so tiring, with sanctimonious libs posturing and pandering to women, but I notice few of them had anything to say when a Democrat vice-president suggested women take advantage of Obamacare and stay home with the kids, like good little girls, cleaning the house and feeding kids and hubbie.
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Old 03-15-2014, 12:37 PM
 
1,825 posts, read 1,418,688 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockside View Post
The left needs to quit dinking around and 'fess up to what they're really trying to do.

With Hillary the probable heir to Obama, millions of Republicans currently labeled racist by the left are suddenly going to be labeled sexist.

So the left is starting early, creating the meme, setting the table or astroturfing or whatever you want to call it with ridiculous threads like this one or more obvious attempts such as banning the word bossy when describing women.

The next two years is going to be so tiring, with sanctimonious libs posturing and pandering to women, but I notice few of them had anything to say when a Democrat vice-president suggested women take advantage of Obamacare and stay home with the kids, like good little girls, cleaning the house and feeding kids and hubbie.
I think that if this is your and most people on the right's approach to dealing with domestic violence i.e. that any federal legislation to opposed domestic violence is pandering to women, then the right is going to have problems running against Hillary.
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Old 03-15-2014, 12:38 PM
 
1,825 posts, read 1,418,688 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
They created a limited federal government with specific congressional powers.

Never in their wildest dreams would they imagine that one day Congress would pass a law that regulates what occurs in private homes.

Domestic violence is a local issue, and not in the federal government's purview.
Well thus far the courts haven't accepted your view of this issue.
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Old 03-15-2014, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles County, CA
29,094 posts, read 25,999,446 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Egbert View Post
Well thus far the courts haven't accepted your view of this issue.
Cite the specific cases and opinions which support your claim.
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Old 03-15-2014, 01:03 PM
 
1,825 posts, read 1,418,688 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
Cite the specific cases and opinions which support your claim.
United States v. Butler, 297 U.S. 1 (1936)
Steward Machine Company v. Davis, 301 U.S. 548 (1937)
South Dakota v. Dole, 483 U.S. 203 (1987)
National Federation of Independent Business v. Sebelius (2012)

Those are a few all affirm that the congress has a broad power to tax and spend for the general welfare. This is just Constitutional law 101. Even so with the amount of folks advocating for stuff like poll taxes, I feel like the faux constitutional scruples argument isn't going to fly on pwning off violence against women on to overburdened local government and social agencies.

Last edited by Egbert; 03-15-2014 at 01:12 PM..
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Old 03-15-2014, 01:12 PM
 
12,270 posts, read 11,325,731 times
Reputation: 8066
Quote:
Originally Posted by Egbert View Post
I think that if this is your and most people on the right's approach to dealing with domestic violence i.e. that any federal legislation to opposed domestic violence is pandering to women, then the right is going to have problems running against Hillary.
The problem is, this whole thread is a lie. By pretending it's about domestic violence, then using it as a cudgel to bash all Republicans, you diminish the actual problem of domestic violence by diluting it with political rhetoric and bs.

Democrats did the same thing by generically accusing all Republicans of being racist just because they disagreed with Obama. But by pointing the finger at everyone, you diminish the real impact of racism and dilute the message because no one believes it anymore. Don't believe me? Look at all the attacks on and curbing of the Voter's Rights Act and Affirmative Action. All happening while a black president is in office, and all because Democrats went out and watered down the message by accusing everyone of being racist.

Domestic violence is a real problem, quit watering it down by using it as propaganda for Hillary. It's disgusting.
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Old 03-15-2014, 01:17 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles County, CA
29,094 posts, read 25,999,446 times
Reputation: 6128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Egbert View Post
United States v. Butler, 297 U.S. 1 (1936)
Steward Machine Company v. Davis, 301 U.S. 548 (1937)
South Dakota v. Dole, 483 U.S. 203 (1987)
National Federation of Independent Business v. Sebelius (2012)

Those are a few all affirm that the congress has a broad power to tax and spend for the general welfare. .
Nothing in those cases concerns "domestic violence" or violence against women.

Furthermore, domestic violence laws in practice often penalize men, but often don't find women responsible even when they are the actual abusers.
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