Why is the US Constitution so hard to follow (radical, vs, abuse)
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No, it doesn't but does it give the fed government the mandate to establish a standard such as 110V nationwide?
I think you got your answer as constitution doesn't as well mention health insurance, Medicare, social security and whole bunch of other things that many dispute as unconstitutional, not understanding that constitution is a living document, which interpretation constantly changes with time..
As already stated, the Constitutions interpretation is not intended to change. The first amendment is not subject to a different interpretation later on down the road. The same goes for the rest of that document. To change it, you must amend it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Count_Dracula
There you go! As you said it yourself . This Is not explicitly spelled out in the constitution but because of contemporary interpretation of the constitution, blacks and women were denied certain constitutional right even though the constitution did not include such provisions. Exactly my point: the constitution is a living document which interpretation changes due to social and political context. thank you for proving my point.
I didn't prove your point. The Constitution has always granted a citizen the right to vote. Always. The only thing that changed was our interpretation of what a citizen is, and that was done by amendment.
Likewise, I do believe { without looking it up } that only property owning males were allowed to vote. That to, was changed, through the amendment process. The interpretation of the existing Constitution, never changed.
Not everything in the world is black and white and our founding fathers understood that.
But, urbanlife, we have some here who COMPLETELY understand the constitution and what it should mean for us in 2014. They are absolute geniuses, right? They know exactly what's right and wrong. They know exactly how this country should be. They should be on Mount Rushmore. So Wise.
They do, with that said they are just choosing one of numerous possible argument when they do and we go by it for the time, but just because courts say it doesn't mean its the one infallible correct answer and everything else is this horrible taboo. Even the supreme court is not adverse to overturning itself from time to time and the idea that you cannot choose different viewpoints of the Constitution overtime is just a convenient way of ignoring its ambiguity because ambiguity can be difficult.
Right, and when they choose one of the numerous possible meanings, it is usually done based on evidence presented by the parties involved. Their job is not to assign new meaning, but to determine the existing meaning based on the evidence available.
Well you are wrong for the following reasons, it outlines power give to the Federal Government(given, not inherent in, or the property of but given by the States) by the States, and is quite clear what those powers are in Article 1 Section 8, as they are the following..
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;
To establish a uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws on the subject of bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;
To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States;
To establish post offices and post roads;
To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;
To constitute tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court;
To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations;
To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;
To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;
To provide and maintain a navy;
To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces;
To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings;--And
To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.
Any and all power not found here are therefor the powers of the States found in the 10th Amendment which reads as the following..
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
And is bolstered by the 9th Amendment which reads as the following...
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
Now since the the 16th Amendment was passed
(or not, I mean it is very very sketchy to say the least..
But then again the Federal Government has never, does not, and never lies about things to gain a supply of wealth, right? yet I digress)
The Federal Government has had a massive, nearly limitless supply of (our) money to do with what ever they want under the verge "general welfare clause"
Factor in the results of the Supreme Court making one of its most epic mistakes of all time(second only United States v Miller, and seizing self ultimate power for itself in Madison V Marbury) in Wickard v. Filburn in which the Supreme Court said the Commence Clause gave the Congress the right to regulate every it wanted since everything was commence.
Only one problem with this...that is not what the text means..
The Commerce Clause reads as the following
[The Congress shall have Power] To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian tribes;
The Founders meant this a protectionist mechanism to prevent goods coming from one state from being blocked or taxes coming to or through another state, not allowing a bunch of fools or crooks in Washington DC tell you what can of light bulb you should have, how much water you toilet should you use, and sure as hell how much of your money you should be allowed to keep, how high the taxes will be on your property that you already own free and clear of any mortgage, loan, or bank, or what you are to put into your body, or with what tool you my use to defend your body, property, or wealth with...
See with a few small actions a great deal of power has been amassed to the Federal Government that has allowed them to control almost every action of our lives..
IN THE NAME OF HEALTH, THEY TAKE OUR FREEDOMS! IN THE NAME OF "SAFETY", THEY TAKE OUR FREEDOM! IN THE NAME OF SECURITY, THEY TAKE OUR FREEDOM! IN THE NAME OF COMPASSION, THEY TAKE OUR FREEDOM! IN THE NAME OF FAIRNESS, THEY TAKE OUT FREEDOM! IN THE NAME OF JOBS, THEY TAKE OUT FREEDOM, IN THE NAME OF THE "NATURAL" ENVIRONMENT, THEY TAKE OUR FREEDOMS! IN THE NAME OF PROGRESS THEY TAKE OUR FREEDOM! ON THE NAME OF OUR CHILDREN, THEY TAKE OUR FREEDOM! MY GOD IN THE NAME OF FREEDOM, THEY TAKE OUR FREEDOM! IN THE NAME OF ALL THAT IS GOOD WITH THE HUMAN SPIRIT, THIS GOVERNMENT ENCOURAGES ITS CITIZENS TO VOTE THEMSELVES INTO A ORWELLIAN BOX THAT NEITHER FOSTERS THAT GOODNESS NOR ENCOURAGES IT-IT MERELY COMPELS IT IN ORDER TO GAIN MORE AND MORE POWER IN THE EYES OF THE PUBLIC CLAIM THEIR NEW PROGRAM WILL END POVERTY OR THEIR NEW BILL WILL REDUCE CRIME, BUT EVERY SO OFTEN WE CAN HEAR THEM NEAR IN AN OPEN MIC, OR SEE THEIR ACTIONS AND DEEDS AND REALIZE THEY HAVE NOTHING BUT CONTEMPT AND MALICE TOWARDS FREEDOM AND THE BLESSINGS PRODUCED AND SECURED IN LIBERTY ILLUMINATION.
THE FUTURE IS ANYTHING WE WANT IT TO BE...AFTER SEE HOW FAR WE HAVE FALLEN IN THE LAST 101 YEARS... WE CAN SIT BACK, FALL INTO THE COMMON STATE THAT ALL OF MANKIND HAS EVER KNOW POVERTY, DEPENDENT, AND ENSLAVEMENT TO A SMALL RULING CLASS USING FORCE OR THE THREAT OF ITS USE AGAINST A DISARMED UNEDUCATED, DEPENDENT POPULACE AND ALL WHO DARE TO BE FREE, OR WE CAN RESTORE THE REPUBLIC, AND AMERICA`S PROMISE AS BEING THE CAUSE OF ALL MANKIND FREEDOM AND LIBERTY IN THE TRUEST SENSE.
RIGHT VS WRONG
WEALTH VS DEBT
PROSPERITY VS POVERTY
SELF RESILIENCE VS DEPENDENCE
FREEDOM VS ENSLAVEMENT
LIBERTY VS TYRANNY
YOUR CHOICE WILL ECHO ACROSS THE HALLS OF HISTORY FOR ALL OF TIME
This is exactly why there is a lot of Constitutional angst and anger among certain folks like the one above. they see everything as black and white and quite frankly that is a serious weakness in perceiving the world. The fact is you have a Constitution and the Constitution provides guidelines for all sorts of government interactions with other governments and individuals. What it does not provide is specific guidance for every single possible case with perfect clarity.
Now this is a serious problem for "RIGHT VS WRONG" thinkers, because when they go there they trap themselves in a mental box of thinking something has to be right or wrong when instead you have a lot of this is plausible, but not necessarily the only way of looking at something. Often "RIGHT VS WRONG" thinkers use a concept called "original intent" to try and lock people into the same mental box as themselves by suggesting 2 things, 1. There is an "original intent" and 2. The "original intent" anticipated every situation and provides 1 correct answer for that situation. Relying on these two assumptions creates a safe mental space for black/white thinkers from which they can try and defend their positions. The only problem is that both assumptions are absurd and wrong when given the slightest amount of thought.
1. There is no original intent. The simple fact is the constitution is not the product of one person or even one relatively uniform group of people. It is the product of diverse people from different professions, different social groups, different states, and to an extent different cultural backrounds. To suggest they all saw the world in such a way as to have a unified original intent is about as ridiculous as saying everyone who currently serves in the US congress shares 1 unifying view of any given major law they agree to.
2. There is no way the founders could anticipate every question, nor did they try, they were smart enough to leave that up to the institutions they created like congress and the courts.
As such it is impossible to look at any given and proclaim the universal original intent is. Chances are if you got all the convention delegates together and put the on a panel and showed them any given Constitutional case they would likely have diverging opinions. Once more this entire concept also ignores American history and the fact that the Constitution has undergone at least 3 periods of significant change once in the civil war/reconstruction era, then again in the dawn of the 20th century, and then yet again during the modern civil rights era. However, this concept is difficult for "Right vs wrong" black vs white thinkers to deal with so they avoid it and continue chasing some fanciful idea that allows them to avoid ambiguity.
The simple fact is the founders and subsequent political leaders during periods of significant Constitutional reform wanted to lay a basic set of guide posts to protect important values of their time. None of them wanted to micromanage their successors from beyond the grave.
Realistically understanding the Constitution as it relates to current issues or cases is going to be essentially a battle of modern very plausible arguments relying on competing analogous, but not perfect, historical precedent to try and best suss out what those historical concepts relate to the present issue and for that there is no RIGHT/WRONG black white answer and those that demand and need one are going to be in a constant state of angst and anger as they watch our Constitutional process deal with ever present ambiguity.
...IN THE NAME OF HEALTH, THEY TAKE OUR FREEDOMS! IN THE NAME OF "SAFETY", THEY TAKE OUR FREEDOM! IN THE NAME OF SECURITY, THEY TAKE OUR FREEDOM! IN THE NAME OF COMPASSION, THEY TAKE OUR FREEDOM! IN THE NAME OF FAIRNESS, THEY TAKE OUT FREEDOM! IN THE NAME OF JOBS, THEY TAKE OUT FREEDOM, IN THE NAME OF THE "NATURAL" ENVIRONMENT, THEY TAKE OUR FREEDOMS! IN THE NAME OF PROGRESS THEY TAKE OUR FREEDOM! ON THE NAME OF OUR CHILDREN, THEY TAKE OUR FREEDOM! MY GOD IN THE NAME OF FREEDOM, THEY TAKE OUR FREEDOM! IN THE NAME OF ALL THAT IS GOOD WITH THE HUMAN SPIRIT, THIS GOVERNMENT ENCOURAGES ITS CITIZENS TO VOTE THEMSELVES INTO A ORWELLIAN BOX THAT NEITHER FOSTERS THAT GOODNESS NOR ENCOURAGES IT-IT MERELY COMPELS IT IN ORDER TO GAIN MORE AND MORE POWER IN THE EYES OF THE PUBLIC CLAIM THEIR NEW PROGRAM WILL END POVERTY OR THEIR NEW BILL WILL REDUCE CRIME, BUT EVERY SO OFTEN WE CAN HEAR THEM NEAR IN AN OPEN MIC, OR SEE THEIR ACTIONS AND DEEDS AND REALIZE THEY HAVE NOTHING BUT CONTEMPT AND MALICE TOWARDS FREEDOM AND THE BLESSINGS PRODUCED AND SECURED IN LIBERTY ILLUMINATION.
THE FUTURE IS ANYTHING WE WANT IT TO BE...AFTER SEE HOW FAR WE HAVE FALLEN IN THE LAST 101 YEARS... WE CAN SIT BACK, FALL INTO THE COMMON STATE THAT ALL OF MANKIND HAS EVER KNOW POVERTY, DEPENDENT, AND ENSLAVEMENT TO A SMALL RULING CLASS USING FORCE OR THE THREAT OF ITS USE AGAINST A DISARMED UNEDUCATED, DEPENDENT POPULACE AND ALL WHO DARE TO BE FREE, OR WE CAN RESTORE THE REPUBLIC, AND AMERICA`S PROMISE AS BEING THE CAUSE OF ALL MANKIND FREEDOM AND LIBERTY IN THE TRUEST SENSE ...
Right, and when they choose one of the numerous possible meanings, it is usually done based on evidence presented by the parties involved. Their job is not to assign new meaning.
Except that almost always "New meaning" vs "different interpretation of ambiguity" is in the eye of the beholder, especially if they have a particularly partisan eye. Essentially IMHO it is a distinction without a difference.
Was there ever an amendment or a part of constitution that denied black their constitutional rights?
What are they teaching in school these days. Surely not the history of the constitution.
When the Constitution was composed, Article I, Section. 2 gave slaves 3/5 citizenship.
Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons [i.e., slaves].
You can thank me later for the education, our government run and funded public school system, failed to provide you.
But, urbanlife, we have some here who COMPLETELY understand the constitution and what it should mean for us in 2014. They are absolute geniuses, right? They know exactly what's right and wrong. They know exactly how this country should be. They should be on Mount Rushmore. So Wise.
What the Constitution means does not change from year to year or from time period to time period. It means today, exactly what it did back when it was drafted. If you want to change that meaning, the Constitution allows you to do that.... It's called the Amendment process.
Where this idea of a flexible meaning from year to year comes from is beyond me.
What the Constitution means does not change from year to year or from time period to time period. It means today, exactly what it did back when it was drafted. If you want to change that meaning, the Constitution allows you to do that.... It's called the Amendment process.
Where this idea of a flexible meaning from year to year comes from is beyond me.
Words are limited and meaning does change over time, whether you like it or not. If we are to faithfully follow the intent of the constitution, we will understand that a 1780 plow was not a 2014 combine.
What the Constitution means does not change from year to year or from time period to time period. It means today, exactly what it did back when it was drafted. If you want to change that meaning, the Constitution allows you to do that.... It's called the Amendment process.
Where this idea of a flexible meaning from year to year comes from is beyond me.
Flexible to liberals means change it to what they want............who care about anything else. The militant progs are an enemy to the US and should be jailed. The big paper is what we should live by like our founders wanted. Lib nutjobs think something is wrong with it all. They are the ones who are wrong.
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