15 years ago NATO started bombing Yugoslavia. (interview, ethical, lawyer, regular)

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by lucknow

You maybe "just saying", But your just saying clearly illustrates the entire point about Americans I was trying to illustrate in my OP. My father in law was in no way a Nazi. In fact he really hated the Nazis. He was just a soldier that had no choice at all in the matter of being in the German army. Do you suppose that he fought the entire war on the eastern front in Russia by choice?

You must either have a very poor reading comprehension or like putting words into others mouths because I NEVER said anything about "how evil the Nazi enemies were". Being an enemy of the Nazis was and still is today a very good thing. However being an enemy of the Nazis in no way at all absolves you of your own evil doings that are your own responsibility. Whether or not you are an enemy of whoever is completely irrelevant as any kind of justification for your OWN bad actions.

Treating enemy prisoners as if they were Nazis personified is typical American behaviour. Just search this board for the number of Americans who hate all Muslims. You now treat or at least suspect all Muslims are terrorists. During the cold war you hated Russians. The average Russian person was just the same as you or I. All he wanted was some security of life, food shelter and clothing and the political actions of his government had absolutely nothing to do with him. Even the Communists were smarter than that. During the darkest days of WW2 the Russian government NEVER EVER blamed the German people for anything. It was the Nazis who were responsible, not the people. Stalin understood that perfectly. His own people did exactly what he ordered them to do or they died. PERIOD.

So I was being nice. Now I’m not.

As a history major with a penchant for all things historical even 20 odd years after matriculation, my alarm bells went off the first time I read your first post, accusing Americans of terrible abuses of German POWs.


The actual facts are the opposite. There is no question that in every war there are excesses and abuses of human rights by all sides.

However the systemic abuses you accuse the Americans of via your German warrior father in law is simply put….a stinking lie.


In the first place there were vastly more accusations of abuse from Brit POW facilities than from American.

In the second place the treatment of POWs has been well documented and with the exception of some wacky idiots who make claims like the Americans killed everybody and the Nazis loved the Jews, there is NOTHING that suggests American treatment of German POWs was anything other than better than required by the Geneva Conventions!

What we have here is your own hatred for America leading you to make some sorry nasty comments that have no bases in reality.
Not even the Germans; who are surprisingly open in dealing with all aspects of WW2, accuse America of systemic poor treatment of their POWs.
The French and Brits however do seem to have their detractors.

Bully for you that you hate America. But don’t be surprised when someone comes along on CD and calls you on the nonsense.

[musiqum]

Originally Posted by lucknow

To this day my Father in Law gives thanks that he was captured by the British at the end of WW2 and not the Russians or AMERICANS. Over 100,000 German POWs died because of the treatment they endured at the hands of Americans. Kept out in the open with no shelter, very little food and what there was of a poor quality, no medical services or treatments and in short, just like a large herd of animals. How dare you talk about the brutality of others. The USA has the blood of millions on it's collective head. How many civilians did you kill needlessly in Vietnam and Iraq? How many died as a direct result of American RWNJ policies in Central and South America? Clean up your own act and then you may have a little credibility to talk about others.

+ 100! Great post!
And you forgot to mention all these colour revolutions and countless incitements and instigations which were made by USA around the world. The last example of it is Ukraine. Russians and Ukrainians are always were single united nation. They always were brothers. Million ukrainians live in Russia and million russians live in Ukraine. They are married to each other, etc. But USA worked very hard to split the nation and to quarrel them with each other. USA secret services organized the coup, have toppled the legitimate elected president and have assigned their obedient puppet. USA pushes the ukrainians to civil war and hypocritically yells - See what Russia have done to Ukraine?
Obama and Jim Kerry are not just liars. They are mean lowdown criminals!

[musiqum]

Originally Posted by Atai J.

Okey, Milosevic was a killer, but why it was needed to bomb Belgrade? What about murdered civilians and children? What they did bad to Kosovo?

Ataj, it was a brutal inhuman act by the US and NATO.
It was a war crime. But unfortunately there was no any force in the world who could oppose and resist to this sinister evil.

[Goinback2011]

For Bots, had Bush bombed Belgrade, they would bang their spoons on their highchairs and scream bloody murder.

Since it was Clinton, they're good with it.

[Toyman at Jewel Lake]

Originally Posted by Atai J.

15 years ago NATO started bombing Yugoslavia.
What do you think about these crimes now?

I think it was a massive mistake going in. The genocide occuring in Yugoslavia wasn't our creation, or our responsibility to fix. It was their own problem, not worth American lives or taxpayer dollars to try to correct. Plus it gives every revisionist idiot something else to blame America for.

[Enigma777]

Originally Posted by Deezus

As somone with a number of close Croatian and Bosnian friends who has been to the region several times...I could care less. The Serbs are the last people who need sympathy for what happened in the 90s in the Balkans.

Did you create a thread for the 15th anniversary of the massacre at Srebenica or the Siege of Sarajevo or shelling of Dubrovnik or the massacre at Zukovar?

This thread is like something out of the bizarro world. I also have Croatian friends and I also remember very well the atrocities committed by the Serbs during those years. Rapes of women on a massive scale, brutal killings of infants and shooting mortars into the outdoor markets on weekend mornings trying to kill as many innocent people as possible. Women and children were raped and killed in front of their families. Mass graves. It was absolutely horrific and Europe did not want to get involved, despite the fact this was happening in their own back yard.

Rape in the Bosnian War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Concentration Camps - The Horrors Of A Camp Called Omarska | The World's Most Wanted Man | FRONTLINE | PBS

[Mircea]

Originally Posted by Atai J.

15 years ago NATO started bombing Yugoslavia. What do you think about these crimes now?

These crimes have not been prosecuted....

Kosovo's PTK privatization: with a little help from old friends

The company of former US Secretary of State Madeleine Albright “Albright Capital Management LLC” has been shortlisted for the privatisation of PTK, Kosovo’s state-owned postal and telecom company.

Wesley Clark puts name behind Kosovo coal project | Marketplace.org

The Envidity Company owned by General Clark has filed its request to the government of the self-proclaimed republic for permission to extract coal from the deposits in the western part of Kosovo, the Serbian news service B-92 reported on June 26.

Originally Posted by skoro

I think the crimes originated with Milosevic.

Milosevic was in the CIA?

Originally Posted by Bamford

The West became increasingly sick of mass genocide and ethnic cleansing being carried out by forces such as the KLA.

You mean al-Qaida. Get your facts straight.

Originally Posted by EmeraldCityWanderer

To be quite honest you can't fight a war if the only way to fight it is to only target combatants 100% of the time.

I would not disagree, however it was not an external conflict.

It was an internal conflict; it was created by the US; and the US & NATO meddling.

Originally Posted by TriMT7

Russians sure are funny sometimes.

The largest war crime unspoken of is Russia's support for Milosevic in the face of thousands and thousands dead - the documented and undocumented dead that were targets of Milosevic's atrocities.

So are Liberals.

Was Clinton or Neo-Conservative National Security Advisor Tony Lake, any other members of Clinton's White House Staff or other federal agencies prosecuted for violating US public laws and purchasing weapons from Iran?

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

Presently. Once the Russians take over the eastern areas, they will begin. Russians are among the most brutal people on earth.

Right.

I'm sorry, who murdered the Chilean president in cold blood, then installed and supported a puppet dictators that murdered thousands?

Oh, that was the US....it doesn't count if the US does it.

Originally Posted by Bamford

If you read your history you would know that the British Empire was largely a trading Empire,....

Wow....what an example of brain-washing by government propaganda.

The operand here is "Empire."

Cloak it with whatever adjectives you want, but the stench always comes through.

You probably think there's a "good cancer."

Originally Posted by Deezus

As somone with a number of close Croatian and Bosnian friends who has been to the region several times...

I was there during the bombing.

Originally Posted by Deezus

Did you create a thread for the 15th anniversary of the massacre at Srebenica or the Siege of Sarajevo or shelling of Dubrovnik or the massacre at Zukovar?

Did you erect a statue to al-Qaida?

[quote=Dane_in_LA;34522730]"Belgrade" wasn't bombed, WWII style - specific targets in Belgrade were.[/quite]

Like the Chinese embassy mission.

Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA

It is noteworthy that the early stages of the campaign were tactical, but that didn't have the necessary effect - strategic targets like bridges and buildings is what brought the message home.

Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA

Slobodan Milosevic died in 2006. Your copypasta is from 2002. And Milosevic is still, rightfully, considered a genocidal murdering war criminal and a bastard of the highest caliber.

And how would characterize Bill Clinton and his Neo-Conservative National Security Advisor Tony Lake?

Illegally use US tax-payer dollars to illegally purchase weapons from Iran; ship them to Albania, where al-Qaida lieutenant al-Zawahiri smuggled them into Bosnia and Kosovo-Metohija....in violation of international laws.....

...which is how this all started.

Originally Posted by TriMT7

Look, I completely get it. It was empire, it was a long time ago, and in a different time and mindset.

But it was undeniably brutal, and it was oppressive, and responsible for millions of deaths around the world during its long existence. To deny otherwise is revisionism.

Yes, it was.

The tribal groups in the Niger and Congo River Basin had a practice of maintaining an oracle in a cave with a large snake tended by a priestess.

British missionaries with the help of the British Army, raped and murdered the priestess, killed the snake, destroyed the oracle and used dynamite to permanently seal the caves.....

Originally Posted by Bamford

If you read your history you would know that the British Empire was largely a trading Empire,....

...really?

Originally Posted by Atai J.

And this thread is not about Milosevic's crimes, you can discuss this in next thread.

They're brain-washed by their government through their media.

Originally Posted by Rggr

Milosevic and his followers are to blame for the entire episode including the losses incurred while fighting to stop him from genocide.

Clinton and his followers, and Clinton's Neo-Con National Security advisor are to blame.

And so the Americans who re-elected Clinton.

Originally Posted by TriMT7

This thread IS about Milosevic's crimes, because without Milosevic's crimes, there would have been no bombing.

You got it backwards......this about America's crimes.....the same crime being perpetrated by Obama in Ukraine -- and also be his predecessors Bush and Clinton -- is the crime perpetrated by Clinton in Yugoslavia.

Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA

Nah, just a little ethnic cleansing.

It's not "ethnic cleansing" but thanks for your hysterics.

Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA

There was never as many as 250,000+ Serbs in Kosovo in the first place.

To which "Kosovo" are you referring?

Didn't your media explain that the Autonomous Region of Kosovo consisted of two provinces: Metohija Province occupied largely by Serbs in the west, and Kosovo Province occupied largely by Kosovars in the east?

Oh, I'm sorry....I guess your State-controlled media didn't tell you that, since it would cause Critical Thinkers to start asking questions the US government would prefer not to answer.

Not that you were paying any attention....you were too busy watching Teletubbies and a flat-chested Hannah Montana.

Geo-strategically....

Mirea

[woxyroxme]

There were a lot of mass graves in the Balkans that were from WWII when Ante Pavelic and the Ustashi massacred Orthodox Serbs for not being catholic, cardinal stepinac of Zagreb became the highest ranking Vatican official to be convicted of a war crime. Orthodox Serbs were butchered in heinous ways at the jasenovac death camp, children had their eyes gouged out, pregnant women had their babies cut out and fed to dogs.

Slick Willy Clinton, Madeline No-So-Bright, and Dick Holbrook lied to the American people so NATO could finish the job the Ustashi could not.

Why does the Croatian flag have the Ustashi symbol on it? Germany's flag does not have a swastika on it.

Srebrenica

[lucknow]

Originally Posted by Ferd

So I was being nice. Now I’m not.

As a history major with a penchant for all things historical even 20 odd years after matriculation, my alarm bells went off the first time I read your first post, accusing Americans of terrible abuses of German POWs.


The actual facts are the opposite. There is no question that in every war there are excesses and abuses of human rights by all sides.

However the systemic abuses you accuse the Americans of via your German warrior father in law is simply put….a stinking lie.


In the first place there were vastly more accusations of abuse from Brit POW facilities than from American.

In the second place the treatment of POWs has been well documented and with the exception of some wacky idiots who make claims like the Americans killed everybody and the Nazis loved the Jews, there is NOTHING that suggests American treatment of German POWs was anything other than better than required by the Geneva Conventions!

What we have here is your own hatred for America leading you to make some sorry nasty comments that have no bases in reality.
Not even the Germans; who are surprisingly open in dealing with all aspects of WW2, accuse America of systemic poor treatment of their POWs.
The French and Brits however do seem to have their detractors.

Bully for you that you hate America. But don’t be surprised when someone comes along on CD and calls you on the nonsense.

www.truedemocracy.net/hj34/20.

It`s anything but nonsense.

I don`t hate Americans. Half my family is from Michigan and Illinois. I do hate a lot of aspects of American governance and foreign policy.

[musiqum]

Originally Posted by lucknow

www.truedemocracy.net/hj34/20.

It`s anything but nonsense.

I don`t hate Americans. Half my family is from Michigan and Illinois. I do hate a lot of aspects of American governance and foreign policy.

Ditto.
Americans are great people and I am proud to be one of them. But I can NOT condone ignoble villainous US foreign policy.