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This falls under the "search" area of the 4th amendment, there have been many of Supreme Court cases involving search tactics of police officers. Under the 4th amendment we are not subjected to unreasonable search and seizure when it involves, person, house, papers or effects, these are considered personal and private property, there must be a warrant to search them items. So, does a cell phone fall into those areas, yes, it is private property, however, the information contained within the phone is private, but the phone numbers dialed are not private property because they belong to a third party. Even if an officer arrest a person for a crime and then searches the cell phone the information gathered from the phone is not admissible as to justify the arrest, they can not retroactive evidence to justify an arrest.
Will this ability to search a phone stand up under constitutional rights, IMO, I don't think it will.
I have no idea how the courts will rule on this issue. Certainly some phones are used to coordinate criminal activity and would provide strong evidence of an individual's participation. But I suspect that organized criminals would use stolen or disposable phones that they would simply dump after limited use.
The fact that this is now an issue should cause many folks to rethink how they use their phones, though.
I have no idea how the courts will rule on this issue. Certainly some phones are used to coordinate criminal activity and would provide strong evidence of an individual's participation. But I suspect that organized criminals would use stolen or disposable phones that they would simply dump after limited use.
The fact that this is now an issue should cause many folks to rethink how they use their phones, though.
One of the things that I'd wonder about is when a person post information to a public forum via their cell phone, now does this remain private property or does it now fall under public property. If it is deemed public property then no search warrant is needed.
Dialed phone numbers do not belong to a third party, it is just information like any other. Even if dialed numbers are considered the property of a third party, that is even more reason to require a warrant to see them.
A dialed number represents an action the person dialing the number took. That action is recorded on the phone. If a dialed phone number was actually the property of someone else, someone else could compel you to remove dialed numbers from your phone. They can't.
I believe that the founding fathers overlooked one fundamental right. The right of privacy. I keep my phone password protected for a reason. To those who say "Why not let the police have the phone, unless someone has something to hide", look at some of the abuses in recent history.
For example, England, where journalists paid police informants for information. This not only essentially gave the journalists special police powers, but corrupted those same public servants.
As another example, J. Edgar Hoover surveilled congress and presidents to use as blackmail, to fund his bureau.
I also suggest that you consider the recently exonerated prisoners. Notice how even when evidence that proved innocence was suppressed, finally comes to light, too many prosecutors still argue to keep innocent men imprisoned.
Finally, look at what financially damaging information could be let loose. Cloud computing and syncing opens the door from phone data to every electronic device and Passwords to retirement, savings or investment accounts could be raided as drug money and easily confiscated by planting a little dope on an innocent and claiming their gains were ill-gotten. Cars are being confiscated with this same tactic along certain highways. Think that that only happens in Russia?
The problem is that the information in our phones are too invasive to the entire fabric of our lives and worth too much. That much concentrated wealth and power will be corrupted.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
If you have a sealed letter addressed to you (or even to someone else) in your coat pocket, can the police open it and read it?
If you have a laptop in a carrying case slung over your shoulder, can the police take it, turn it on and look through it?
If the police stop you for a traffic violation, can they compel you to open the trunk?
If I am walking down the street, taking pictures of anything I find interesting (which I do a lot), can the police take my camera and examine my work?
The problem as I see it, is that in these post 911 days we are surrendering our rights in the name of the war on terror, which I believe is nothing but a power grab by the federal government. We see this in the ongoing federalization of everything from our schools to our police departments to our charitable activities. And soon there will be fleets of drones in our skies.
Last edited by Oldhag1; 05-01-2014 at 06:19 AM..
Reason: Font
One of the things that I'd wonder about is when a person post information to a public forum via their cell phone, now does this remain private property or does it now fall under public property. If it is deemed public property then no search warrant is needed.
I suggest that anything that is posted to a public forum does not fall under the aegis of the 4th amendment.
I also suggest that your phone is not public property, even if it has been used to post to a public forum. Should the police be able to enter your home and take your computer to check it out if you have used it to post to a public forum, as I am doing now? I dont think so.
No. I can just imagine how many videos of police brutality would get erased during the "search".
You know what has been said. In the war against tyranny, the camera is the new gun.
BTW did you read the story about how cops were deliberately disabling their cams and radios so their bosses couldnt check up on them? SOURCE Who will guard the guards?
You know what has been said. In the war against tyranny, the camera is the new gun.
BTW did you read the story about how cops were deliberately disabling their cams and radios so their bosses couldnt check up on them? SOURCE Who will guard the guards?
Yup, the spread of information hurts tyrants, and cops are petty tyrants. I used to buy the whole "few bad apples" line, but then I remembered the rest of the saying: "A few bad apples, spoils the whole bunch."
There is NO shortage of police abusing peaceful people, and in every one of these videos, multiple cops are beating someone or standing around watching someone get beat. There are a *few* good apples left, and they are constantly intimidated and under threat not to cross the thin blue line.
They are constantly exposed as liars in court, and are trained to lie to civilians, a camera is the only way to protect yourself, and if that camera is connected to your phone, I would not let them search it.
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Should cops be able search your phone?
