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How does that change anything? Do you think I am somehow obligated to wait for him to show a weapon and determine his threat level when he has already broken into my home? Then it becomes a matter of which of us is either the faster or better shot - a duel.
In regards to the police training that you've seen. Go on Youtube and search for police shooting videos, police threaten deadly force pretty much from the get go all the time, I've even heard police tell a person they would blow their freaking brains all over the parking lot if they didn't see their hands.
I'm not saying that breaking into someone's house is right or justifiable, but I don't believe that it necessarily automatically warrants a death sentence in and of itself.
LEOs are not trained to yell threatening "or else" statements. If they are yelling these things, they weren't trained that way. The reason for this is because tons of police departments have been sued for such statements, as in the citizen feared for their life, was done emotional harm, distress, etc. So the big thing is being super polite right up until you kill them or put them on the ground.
To the subject though, per your second paragraph, I've done the training and the job of law enforcement, and you have no idea how fast things move. All of your analysis, escalation flow charts, societal considerations, philosophical quandaries, etc fly out the window when you find out just how fast someone can close to melee_kill_you_dead_as_hell range and from how far away that can happen. In most houses under 2,500 sq ft, there isn't anywhere in that house that I cannot have you on the ground in under 2 seconds. If you delay your decision until after I move and you have completed your threat analysis on my movements, that 2 seconds just became roughly 0.5 sec. If you only have half a second...I own you.
In training, when we knew the attack was coming, I saw a 100 pound girl put a 230 pound man on his arse from 40 feet away and he never got his weapon out of the holster. It happens that fast. Test it out with your friends sometime. Put a squirt gun in a holster, or hold it at whatever ready position TV and the Internet have tricked you into thinking is proper, and the challenge is to get water on them before they can put two hands on you. Give it a try, and you'll start to understand how little time you have to form a committee on deadly force and vote on whether the intruder is there to hurt you.
The bottom line is that if there's another human being in my house in the middle of the night other than my wife laying next to me, I am getting out of bed to kill them. Period. Don't worry, I'll announce that intention to give them the option of not being there when I make it down the hall, but if I see an upright human when I get to the end of the hallway, I am putting two bullets (minimum) into them without blinking. And when the smoke clears, I won't lose one second of sleep over it because they initiated the force against me, therefore they forfeited their natural individual rights by trying to violate mine.
LEOs are not trained to yell threatening "or else" statements. If they are yelling these things, they weren't trained that way. The reason for this is because tons of police departments have been sued for such statements, as in the citizen feared for their life, was done emotional harm, distress, etc. So the big thing is being super polite right up until you kill them or put them on the ground.
To the subject though, per your second paragraph, I've done the training and the job of law enforcement, and you have no idea how fast things move. All of your analysis, escalation flow charts, societal considerations, philosophical quandaries, etc fly out the window when you find out just how fast someone can close to melee_kill_you_dead_as_hell range and from how far away that can happen. In most houses under 2,500 sq ft, there isn't anywhere in that house that I cannot have you on the ground in under 2 seconds. If you delay your decision until after I move and you have completed your threat analysis on my movements, that 2 seconds just became roughly 0.5 sec. If you only have half a second...I own you.
In training, when we knew the attack was coming, I saw a 100 pound girl put a 230 pound man on his arse from 40 feet away and he never got his weapon out of the holster. It happens that fast. Test it out with your friends sometime. Put a squirt gun in a holster, or hold it at whatever ready position TV and the Internet have tricked you into thinking is proper, and the challenge is to get water on them before they can put two hands on you. Give it a try, and you'll start to understand how little time you have to form a committee on deadly force and vote on whether the intruder is there to hurt you.
The bottom line is that if there's another human being in my house in the middle of the night other than my wife laying next to me, I am getting out of bed to kill them. Period. Don't worry, I'll announce that intention to give them the option of not being there when I make it down the hall, but if I see an upright human when I get to the end of the hallway, I am putting two bullets (minimum) into them without blinking. And when the smoke clears, I won't lose one second of sleep over it because they initiated the force against me, therefore they forfeited their natural individual rights by trying to violate mine.
Hmm, one thing that I would never do is announce I have deadly force. I would like to get the jump on them and give them as little time as possible to prepare, in the event they actually have deadly force as well. But your point(s) are well taken.
Hmm, one thing that I would never do is announce I have deadly force. I would like to get the jump on them and give them as little time as possible to prepare, in the event they actually have deadly force as well. But your point(s) are well taken.
Unless you are dealing with a fictional character from mythology, you announce to the darkness that you are up, armed and coming to kill whoever can hear your voice, then chances are real good whoever was there will be long gone by the time you make it down the hall. If you have a 12 gauge (which every home should have), racking the slide is sufficient to make 99.99% of humanity either flee in terror or drop to the ground and beg forgiveness.
But again, if I make down the hall and an intruder is still there...double tap, then email my boss and tell him I will be in late the next day, since the cops will probably be there until the wee hours doing paperwork.
It doesn't make any difference, an intruder could kill you with his bare hands.
I am a petite 61 year old woman.....what do you think my chances would be defending myself from an intruder who is usually male and bigger, stronger, younger?
Would you bet your life that I could take him?
How about this......there is a wrestling match between me and a man who is 23 years old, 5'7", 150 lbs......who would you bet on to win?
Unless you are dealing with a fictional character from mythology, you announce to the darkness that you are up, armed and coming to kill whoever can hear your voice, then chances are real good whoever was there will be long gone by the time you make it down the hall. If you have a 12 gauge (which every home should have), racking the slide is sufficient to make 99.99% of humanity either flee in terror or drop to the ground and beg forgiveness.
But again, if I make down the hall and an intruder is still there...double tap, then email my boss and tell him I will be in late the next day, since the cops will probably be there until the wee hours doing paperwork.
1.) I don't believe a shotgun can be double tapped.
2.) I still would rather try and sneak up on him, if he's also armed with a bullet proof vest, Russian grenades, fully automatics, and a 40... I don't want to give him time to get into position.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annie53
It doesn't make any difference, an intruder could kill you with his bare hands.
I am a petite 61 year old woman.....what do you think my chances would be defending myself from an intruder who is usually male and bigger, stronger, younger?
Would you bet your life that I could take him?
How about this......there is a wrestling match between me and a man who is 23 years old, 5'7", 150 lbs......who would you bet on to win?
Lol, 5'7'' 150....
Anyways, I see your point. There was a story, last year I think it was, where a woman announced to three men who were trying to break into her house through her window that she was armed and she would shoot, they came in anyways.... They never made it out.... Well, not under their own power at least. I think they thought that she was bluffing.
If someone breaks into your house, do they deserve death for it? Even if they're not even armed? There's been several stories in the news about teenagers who broke into old men's homes and were slain unnecessarily after the threat was neutralized and the general consensus was that the men were heroes for protecting their stuff.
Yes.
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