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My partner and I were discussing this yesterday in the wake of the recent murders in Santa Barbara. Of course, you have people calling for more gun control, and others blaming the lack of good mental health care in this country.
I feel both could be valid points, but I also feel misogyny is is the bigger problem, and it's one we're not talking about.
This young man, apparently, wasn't getting any attention from women. He felt entitled to sex, and since he wasn't getting any of what he felt he deserved, he decided to seek vengeance.
Not every frustrated young man is going to go on a killing spree because they're still a virgin or because they've hit a dry spell, but I have seen an appalling number of men who have a similar thought process. There are hundreds or thousands of so called "Pick Up Artists" out there, who claim to be able to teach guys how to be "alphas" and "get the females they deserve", often through techniques like "negging", which is based around making a target feel worthless. You have tons of guys complaining about being stuck in the "friend zone"--they were nice to a woman, and she didn't reward them with sex. How dare they?
Of course, women also internalize these messages that women are less than, or that they are meant to be used. That's how you get poll results like this: UIC Campus Advocacy Network
An awful lot of young people, both male and female, are of the opinion it's okay to use force to get sex if "the boy spent a lot of money on the girl". Even more were okay a man forcing sex on a woman if they were married. 35% of college males surveyed said they would commit rape if they thought they could get away with it, and 43% of them admitted to using "coercive behavior" to get a woman to sleep with them.
We really do need to address the state of mental health in America. Maybe we need to have more open dialogue about guns, too.
But we desperately need to stop promoting a culture that allows men to expect sex from women, and that makes it acceptable to use force against them when they say no.
We do not promote a culture of violence that says violence is an acceptable means to get what you want.
There may be some for a lack of a better word "thug" cultures that promotes it but by and large they are not supported.
Are those 43% of college men from the survey above all from that "thug" culture, then? I doubt it.
We allow misogyny, and through it we also allow a culture of rape. This does not mean we are necessarily a culture that promotes rape (or misogyny), but we are a culture that doesn't do near enough to discourage it in its earliest stages.
Heck, you can look around for threads here, and I'm sure you will find plenty of examples of people who think a drunken girl can't be raped, that a woman wearing revealing clothing is "asking for it", and people who are generally unconcerned about how consensual the sex they're having really is. There are certainly a few men in the Relationship forum who are angry about being friendzoned, or who have decided their main goal in life is to "get a female" for themselves.
And far too many of us stand back in the face of those things and say nothing.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cephalopede
My partner and I were discussing this yesterday in the wake of the recent murders in Santa Barbara. Of course, you have people calling for more gun control, and others blaming the lack of good mental health care in this country.
I feel both could be valid points, but I also feel misogyny is is the bigger problem, and it's one we're not talking about.
This young man, apparently, wasn't getting any attention from women. He felt entitled to sex, and since he wasn't getting any of what he felt he deserved, he decided to seek vengeance.
Not every frustrated young man is going to go on a killing spree because they're still a virgin or because they've hit a dry spell, but I have seen an appalling number of men who have a similar thought process. There are hundreds or thousands of so called "Pick Up Artists" out there, who claim to be able to teach guys how to be "alphas" and "get the females they deserve", often through techniques like "negging", which is based around making a target feel worthless. You have tons of guys complaining about being stuck in the "friend zone"--they were nice to a woman, and she didn't reward them with sex. How dare they?
Of course, women also internalize these messages that women are less than, or that they are meant to be used. That's how you get poll results like this: UIC Campus Advocacy Network
An awful lot of young people, both male and female, are of the opinion it's okay to use force to get sex if "the boy spent a lot of money on the girl". Even more were okay a man forcing sex on a woman if they were married. 35% of college males surveyed said they would commit rape if they thought they could get away with it, and 43% of them admitted to using "coercive behavior" to get a woman to sleep with them.
We really do need to address the state of mental health in America. Maybe we need to have more open dialogue about guns, too.
But we desperately need to stop promoting a culture that allows men to expect sex from women, and that makes it acceptable to use force against them when they say no.
did you listen to him on that you tube vid in the beginning of the thread?? he was a stuck up spoiled brat..
I can only speak for myself but when I was single, all but one man did not take no for an answer to the point where I felt threatened. Are men aggressive when it comes to sex? Yes. But I truly believe that if a man knows that you absolutely mean no, the majority will back off. I also believe part of the answer is a father giving his daughter a little talk about what goes on in guys heads, particularly teenage boys heads. I will agree with you though that guys who use violence against women don't pay a heavy enough price for it.
@The OP: I agree with what you say here, and I also want to point out that perhaps we should focus less on things such as sex and virginity in our culture. I myself am 21 years old and still a virgin, and while I myself have no problem with this whatsoever, some/many males and perhaps even females do have a problem with this, which in my opinion in rather sad and regretful. After all, I don't think that people should be pressured to have and/or to seek sex when these people themselves are unprepared for this.
Guy was a lunatic. Make up all the excuses you want.
Annnnd … Ladies and gentlemen, we have Exhibit A proving the case that our culture excuses, overlooks and even encourages misogyny. Hey, it's just an "excuse," right? Only a "nutcase" feels entitled to women as sex objects. No worries, KUchief has solved the problem.
I can only speak for myself but when I was single, all but one man did not take no for an answer to the point where I felt threatened. Are men aggressive when it comes to sex? Yes. But I truly believe that if a man knows that you absolutely mean no, the majority will back off. I also believe part of the answer is a father giving his daughter a little talk about what goes on in guys heads, particularly teenage boys heads. I will agree with you though that guys who use violence against women don't pay a heavy enough price for it.
Perhaps parents should also have a talk with their young sons about not demanding sex from females.
In addition, I wonder how much of a role testosterone plays in males' aggressiveness and strong desire for sex. After all, as far as I know, eunuchs who do not utilize hormone replacement therapy do not appear to have this issue.
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