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Wow I can't believe you called gays and lesbians flawed. Do you go around telling the disabled that as well?
Gays and lesbians ARE flawed human beings, just as those who are mentally retarded, blind, deaf or autistic. No, I don't tell them to their faces, but they are.
BTW no one is perfect, however, some are more flawed than others. Otherwise, not being religious, I don't have to justify a god who makes flawed human beings.
He answered your f’n question, why do you persist in tormenting and harassing him?
No he didn't. Furthermore, I'm not harrassing him. I just want to know how 2 consenting adults being in a relationship, or what they do in their bedroom effects someone else? He won't give an answer, other than "God said", so it's just using religion as an excuse to treat people like second class citizens.
I doubt it. I belong to a number of automotive forums where a good majority are young members, under 30, and in the lounge area when homosexual marriage is mentioned it is more of "Not for me but I do not have a problem if others want to do it. Just do not push it on me." More tolerance than avid support.
I doubt any father would be happy to hear his son is a homosexual. It is more like "Damn where did I go wrong...."
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Originally Posted by cephalopede
And as a 30-something, I'm hard pressed to think of anyone I know in my peer group who would feel this way.
Considering your obvious orientation, do you really think that the people around you would be completely honest with you? And going by my 21 year old niece, and the twenty-something year olds that I work with in the Boston area, you are completely wrong in thinking that a family member being gay or lesbian is a cause for happiness or pride. No one boasts about having a gay or lesbian person in their family.
In fact, when that happens, there is always the passing thought that the family dynamics were skewed. Such as a domineering mother or some sort of sexual child abuse causing the gayness. The catholic priest scandals haven't helped.
You really think it's something a father did or didn't do that causes homosexuality?
Every parent of a gay or lesbian person wonders why their child turned out that way. Just as the parents of a child with Aspergers or autism wonders the same, especially when no one else in the family is that way.
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Originally Posted by raindrop101
I am not being snarky, so please don't take it that way. This is a serious question...
I lived in the very liberal Bay Area for 20+ years, and I have been all over college campuses, malls, etc. and I have never, even once, had someone's sexuality "shoved in my face". Where and how does this happen? I would assume gay pride parades, Broadway shows, and some TV shows have homosexual behavior and characters, but those are easily avoidable. I rarely read news articles or see political statements about homosexual rights unless I seek them out, but I certainly don't have to read them. I do post about SS rights here, but I purposely read those threads. My neighbors are gay, married, and raising children, but they don't shove anything in my face. (except pumpkin bread, but technically I am doing the shoving ) They are lovely people who are raising lovely, well-behaved, responsible children.
I guess I am either oblivious, or I don't notice it because it doesn't offend me. I am just curious where and how people see homosexual people who won't "shut up" and "go away" as that has not been my experience.
Aside from gay parades, working with or being friends with a "flamer". Some gay men just like being flamboyant about their gayness. Then add in all those news stories about gay and lesbian couples being refused wedding cakes, bridal gowns and wedding venues.
Then... there was the AIDS crisis which was made so much worse because of the gay promiscuity of the 1980's. Gays slutted it up in the clubs and bars and spread the virus everywhere. My gay friends in their 50's now lament their partners who didn't survive that era. And who would have thought those gays at all interested in gay marriage? And had their not been AIDS, maybe gays would still be slutting it up instead of settling down to a marriage?
It's not up to me to explain infinity and time and space. It's up to you to prove that your God exists because you made the claim.
You obviously got your answer that you didn't really want to hear and didn't like. As you are inclined to reject, challenge, disagree, and ridicule ANY answer you receive on this topic perhaps it would best suit your pessimistic sensibilities not to ask such questions in the first place as the answers are clearly and sadly beyond your ability to grasp, let alone even begin to comprehend or understand that with which you are hearing.
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Originally Posted by weltschmerz
Where is your proof? Got anything besides deflections about time and space? You're saying that an omnipotent being (who looks like us, no less) created the universe, time and space. Prove it. You've got nothing.
The part you added in your reply falsely putting your words in my mouth is insulting, needless, mocking and unnecessary. For that I almost elected to ignore you and your put down rantings from here on out. Where did I say anything about a “being”? YOU said that princess, not I. Why do you persist in trying to humanize that which is not explainable to or in this particular time/space dimensional construct? The humanoid figure apparently makes you feel comfortable as it is something you can easily relate to yet the concept of such is so primitive, out dated and old fashioned and a part of human nature necessary to the survival, well being and comfort of the species apparently.
No one boasts about having a gay or lesbian person in their family.
In fact, when that happens, there is always the passing thought that the family dynamics were skewed. Such as a domineering mother or some sort of sexual child abuse causing the gayness. The catholic priest scandals haven't helped.
Nobody takes pride saying "My son is a fgt" or my daughter is a "dke". It is denied or not mentioned and shameful to the family. This is an undeniable reality the homosexual will never change via legislation, pieces of paper, bullying those who disagree, attacking the religious and shutting down small businesses. To be liked and wanted they have to make themselves likeable and so far they are doing everything but and still act incredulous as to why they have such a hard time. They intentionally and deliberately bring their hardships upon themselves.
No he didn't. Furthermore, I'm not harrassing him. I just want to know how 2 consenting adults being in a relationship, or what they do in their bedroom effects someone else? He won't give an answer, other than "God said", so it's just using religion as an excuse to treat people like second class citizens.
God also warns us about passing judgement too. Yet here you are, passing judgement. At any rate, I'll let God be the judge, as it is between the 2 consenting adults and Him.
Every parent of a gay or lesbian person wonders why their child turned out that way. Just as the parents of a child with Aspergers or autism wonders the same, especially when no one else in the family is that way.
It so happens I have a brother with a disability. The only thing my parents did to cause it was conceive him. And the same is true of a child who grows up to prefer sex with people of his/her gender.
Dang, who is this god guy anyway and why do so many people let such a narrow-minded, ignorant person rule their lives. I don't get it.
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) They are lovely people who are raising lovely, well-behaved, responsible children.