Ebola in Our Midsts Part 2 (legal, attorney, soldiers, health care)

[gen811]

Originally Posted by suzy_q2010

Hogwash.

This virus is deadly and a vaccine is one of our best hopes to contain it.

Vaccines are not made from antibodies.

There is an anti-viral medication called ZMapp which is made from antibodies. It is not a vaccine.

Vaccine do not mutate.

Vaccines can be made from whole viruses which are capable of replicating (alive in that respect) but weakened or from virus that is not capable of replicating (dead in that respect.) Newer vaccines take it a step further and use only part of the virus, just an antigen that will stimulate the body to be able to recognize and "kill" the whole virus when it sees it.

Ebola Vaccine: Is It Safe?

"The vaccines do not contain live Ebola viruses, only antigens or parts of the virus that can stimulate a protective immune response. The vaccines cannot cause Ebola infections."

Questions and Answers on Experimental Treatments and Vaccines for Ebola | Ebola Hemorrhagic Fever | CDC

No one is going to make a lot of money from an Ebola vaccine. Overall, going forward, the market will be too small. The only market for it in the US would be people traveling to areas where Ebola is endemic.

Suzy you didn't read my whole post:

Never said vaccines are made from antibodies

vaccines are made from weakened viruses dead or alive as they say
but the correct term to use on vaccines = disabled viruses NOT dead as many would say.

so the questions = can the vaccine mutate? quite a few articles have said already vaccines can mutate and have been proven depending on how they make the vaccine.
we do not yet know how they are doing it yet thus be wary.

I see suzy you are promoting the experimental vaccine


because it is experimental you cannot sue tptb if you die from it so it is even more dangerous
and as others have pointed out people have been CUTTING CORNERS

Ebola Vaccine: Is It Safe?

"The vaccines do not contain live Ebola viruses, only antigens or parts of the virus that can stimulate a protective immune response. The vaccines cannot cause Ebola infections."

one thing they must add certain chemicals to make the antigens effective at producing the immune response as a result the allergic reactions have killed quite a few babies/people already you can easily google many articles on this and the FDA/CDC etc would not record all these findings never the less the reports are true.
perhaps less than 1% of the vaccines but it does occur.

so safe for most people IF they were correctly tested but this is experimental now isn't it? they can say whatever they want.
prove it first. and even if there is proof the 1% with allergic reactions should still be careful.


result:
so they want us to NOT SUE THEM because they are experimental?
how about NO. when they take off their experimental status and are liable then maybe I would be more willing to encourage others to take it.
especially since it is low risk.

WHY overreacting when it is not serious right?
we aren't even quarantining people yet so why do WE need to take the vaccine.

quarantine all the medical workers first before you ask all the american people to take the vaccine thanks
especially those going to ebola countries in Africa


if people want it go ahead
but do not FORCE others to take the experimental vaccines.
we are not even at high risk.


let others that are at high risk take it but not those with low risk.
this has been the point I have been arguing others about.

and this experimental vaccine with the favor of forcing it on everyone are the same people that refuse to close the borders or quarantining the medical high risk workers.

I already said DO not force experimental vaccination
the medical workers though said do not force quarantine.

so they are against each other.
can I call the medical workers that want forced experimental vaccination a violation of rights as well then?

that is definitely over reacting when they force vaccinate you with no choice of appeal
especially in low risk areas

remember I am more of a constitutionalist than liberal or neo-conservative I favor freedom where possible
so I consider myself right in the middle an independent.
I favor common sense and staying with the constitution where possible which many are spitting on.

force experimental vaccination = dictatorship = real overreaction

the only reason I favor quarantine + flight ban
is because it makes sense compared to what has been done and it is much less of an over reaction
flight ban = makes sense

free markets would have already banned flights to there already
because it has cost them many millions cleaning the plains as the panic runs wild and flights detoured.
reason no flight bans = government mandate to keep flights open.


vs over reaction sending in military + what some want to do
the gov better not over react even more...


not because I am a neo-con or dictator etc. nor is it a race issue.
just common sense.

[chucksnee]

Funny, it is now mandatory for Soldiers....

They're just back from the Ebola hot zone, they can't have any physical contact with family or loved ones and their plastic forks are being burned after each use. But American troops quarantined in Italy have good morale and are proud of their work against the "silent enemy" of Ebola, according to Major General Darryl Williams, who is being isolated alongside his men at the Army base in Vicenza.




U.S. Army personnel will continue to be placed in 21-day quarantine as they return home to their base in Italy, according to Williams, commander of US Army forces in Africa, who spoke to CNN from within the isolation area by military video conference.

Army general speaks from Ebola quarantine - CNN.com

Before you respond, think about this...

Soldiers are supposed to be going to BUILD buildings....nothing more (if you have a link that says different, please post) it is mandatory for them to be quarantined....

Soldier...sure...

Civilian...I might sue...

[HappyTexan]

Originally Posted by chucksnee

Funny, it is now mandatory for Soldiers....



Army general speaks from Ebola quarantine - CNN.com

Before you respond, think about this...

Soldiers are supposed to be going to BUILD buildings....nothing more (if you have a link that says different, please post) it is mandatory for them to be quarantined....

Soldier...sure...

Civilian...I might sue...

You haven't been keeping up with the news.
Several units will also be doing blood work.

[gen811]

Originally Posted by Katiana

Well, everyone knows nurses are at fault for everything wrong that happens in a situation. Either they deliberately infected themselves, probably for publicity purposes, or they were too stupid to follow the protocols. It couldn't POSSIBLY be because the protocols did not adequately protect them.

Did you not see this: Who To Blame When You Get Ebola: A CDC Guide For Healthcare Workers
Atlanta, GA -- The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) announced new flowchart guidelines Monday to help healthcare workers understand who they could blame once they contract Ebola in the hospital setting. The new recommendations follow declarations by Dr Thomas Friedman, Director of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, that nurse Nina Pham in a Dallas, Texas hospital contracted Ebola due to 'protocol breach' while caring for the now deceased Ebola victim Thomas Eric Duncan. . . . "After speaking with representatives from the American Nurses Association, everyone agreed blaming nurses for spreading Ebola was just the easiest thing to do," said Jason Fenster, a CDC spokesman who blamed his nurse last year for undercooked eggs while hospitalized for an undisclosed infection contracted at a CDC laboratory.

Following the release of these CDC guidelines, officials at the Dallas, Texas hospital confirmed they are probably going to blame three or four nurses for spreading Ebola while taking care of Mr. Duncan, including one on maternity leave for the last six weeks."
Chart follows.

I do not know whether the protocols were breached or not. Neither does that jag Frieden. He wasn't there. But to unrelenting contend that the protocols are perfect, and if followed exactly will prevent everyone from contracting Ebola, is folly. It's as dumb as saying that peptic ulcers are caused by a "Type A" lifestyle, something that was taught when I was back in nursing school. Now we know that a bacteria causes the vast majority of peptic ulcer disease.

I think 70-80% of the public already know whom to blame.
eg- CDC
they are still denying it and it shows.

they need to start being humble about it and actually admit they failed.
but they were taught to never admit fault like CEOs of TBTF companies
because that would open up a can of worms. instead they will always blame the
bottom worker where possible.

in this case CDC cannot because they actually failed but are trying hard to find a scapegoat.

fact is they should be wearing hazmat suits with proper training.
and not some dingy cheap paper suit.

nurses have been protesting for just that already for quite a while since it happened.
but CDC refuses to increase protective gear protocols.

instead just gives them level 3 virus gear on a level 4 virus.
there in lays her folly

fact is they should treat it as if it is airborne even if it is not.
just to make sure because you do not know everything thus should be more careful.


examples:
when you do not know if you will be late:
go there earlier just in case the trains eg MTA screws you over.
I had to do this many times and walk/run miles to work instead of taking the subway because something went wrong/delays.

Murphy's law: "if something can go wrong, it will go wrong"
original: "whatever can happen will happen"

[suzy_q2010]

Originally Posted by gen811

Suzy you didn't read my whole post:

Yes, I did.

Never said vaccines are made from antibodies

vaccines are made from weakened viruses dead or alive as they say
but the correct term to use on vaccines = disabled viruses NOT dead as many would say.

Most people use "dead" and "alive" when referring to viruses. It is just easier to say than "viruses which cannot replicate" and "viruses which can replicate." The "dead or alive" usage is just a philosophical point of discussion for virologists.

Viruses can reproduce themselves and they are cells that contain DNA or RNA, one of the building blocks of animals. I consider them living animals, even though they need the cell of another organism in which to replicate. The distinction has no relevance to the Ebola vaccines.

so the questions = can the vaccine mutate? quite a few articles have said already vaccines can mutate and have been proven depending on how they make the vaccine.
we do not yet know how they are doing it yet thus be wary.

No, vaccines do not mutate. Viruses mutate. There is a difference.

I see suzy you are promoting the experimental vaccine


because it is experimental you cannot sue tptb if you die from it so it is even more dangerous
and as others have pointed out people have been CUTTING CORNERS

We are going to have to compress the time interval for getting one or more Ebola vaccines into the field. That means that studies on the vaccine cannot be dragged out over years and years. The people in the safety studies that are ongoing are volunteers who are made aware of known risks of the medication. Because these studies are done to determine what risks there may be, it is not possible for the participants to know what all of those risks will turn out to be. They participate in the study anyway.

If there were a known but non-disclosed risk, then I am sure that there would be a mechanism for the participant to recover from the manufacturer.

Complications from vaccines are covered through a compensation fund here in the US, but even people who make claims through the fund can still sue if they disagree with the decision of the fund's process.

one thing they must add certain chemicals to make the antigens effective at producing the immune response as a result the allergic reactions have killed quite a few babies/people already you can easily google many articles on this and the FDA/CDC etc would not record all these findings never the less the reports are true.
perhaps less than 1% of the vaccines but it does occur.

so safe for most people IF they were correctly tested but this is experimental now isn't it? they can say whatever they want.
prove it first. and even if there is proof the 1% with allergic reactions should still be careful.

Serious complications from vaccines are so rare it is hard to calculate how often they happen. Far fewer than 1% of vaccine doses are associated with allergic reactions, and those reactions can be treated and are seldom fatal.

With Ebola, the fatality rate is so high that a vaccine would have to be extremely dangerous for the risk of the vaccine to outweigh the benefit.

result:
so they want us to NOT SUE THEM because they are experimental?
how about NO. when they take off their experimental status and are liable then maybe I would be more willing to encourage others to take it.
especially since it is low risk.

People are dying from this disease in significant and increasing numbers in Africa. No one is worrying about being sued right now. It is needed in the field as soon as possible. No one will be forced to take it.

WHY overreacting when it is not serious right?
we aren't even quarantining people yet so why do WE need to take the vaccine.

quarantine all the medical workers first before you ask all the american people to take the vaccine thanks
especially those going to ebola countries in Africa


if people want it go ahead
but do not FORCE others to take the experimental vaccines.
we are not even at high risk.


let others that are at high risk take it but not those with low risk.
this has been the point I have been arguing others about.



and this experimental vaccine with the favor of forcing it on everyone are the same people that refuse to close the borders or quarantining the medical high risk workers.

I already said DO not force experimental vaccination
the medical workers though said do not force quarantine.

so they are against each other.
can I call the medical workers that want forced experimental vaccination a violation of rights as well then?

that is definitely over reacting when they force vaccinate you with no choice of appeal

No one in this country will even be offered the vaccine if there is no risk of that person being exposed to Ebola. There would be no point. No one will be forced to do anything.

remember I am more of a constitutionalist than liberal or neo-conservative I favor freedom where possible
so I consider myself right in the middle an independent.
I favor common sense and staying with the constitution where possible which many are spitting on.

force experimental vaccination = dictatorship = real overreaction

the only reason I favor quarantine + flight ban
is because it makes sense compared to what has been done and it is much less of an over reaction
flight ban = makes sense

free markets would have already banned flights to there already
because it has cost them many millions cleaning the plains as the panic runs wild and flights detoured.
reason no flight bans = government mandate to keep flights open.


vs over reaction sending in military + what some want to do
the gov better not over react.


not because I am a neo-con or dictator etc. nor is it a race issue.
just common sense.

The vaccine has nothing to do with travel bans or quarantines. Those are separate issues. No one will ever force you to take an Ebola vaccine, though if you were exposed to the virus and were offered an effective vaccine you might be foolish to not take it, experimental or not.

[MJJersey]

Originally Posted by HappyTexan

The CDC has changed their guidelines and procedures and protective clothing since Duncan.
The guideline and procedures have undergone several changes.

The nurses could have been strictly following the CDC guidelines for all we know.
The guidelines may have had gaps in it which increased the risk of exposure.

The CDC recommended BSL2 gear to deal with a BSL4 virus.

I agree. It's also likely that the hospital did not have proper equipment even if they wanted to follow protocol.

[Rakin]

Has anyone ever actually seen the Ebola Czar give a speech or make an appearance ?

Or is he just there to collect a BIL Paycheck ?

[MJJersey]

Originally Posted by Rakin

Has anyone ever actually seen the Ebola Czar give a speech or make an appearance ?

Or is he just there to collect a BIL Paycheck ?

He's probably behind the scenes blaming Christie for actually doing something and making him look bad.

[HappyTexan]

Originally Posted by Rakin

Has anyone ever actually seen the Ebola Czar give a speech or make an appearance ?

Or is he just there to collect a BIL Paycheck ?

He's hanging out under the desk with the Surgeon General until this all blows over

[Chuckity]

Originally Posted by Rakin

Has anyone ever actually seen the Ebola Czar give a speech or make an appearance ?

Or is he just there to collect a BIL Paycheck ?

He's a behind the scenes guy, dontcha know?

Ebola czar Ron Klain is still out of sight as N.Y., N.J. defend decision to go beyond CDC guidelines - NY Daily News

Earnest said Klain’s work — he’s been on the job 10 days — already produced “a significant number of announcements related to the whole-of-government approach that the President has ordered to dealing with the Ebola situation.”