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Good for him, always good to see a good guy win. That said, I do have one concern; if the assailant was only 8 feet away and he shot twice how did he miss the kid? Really, 8 feet, heck my wife could hit everything in front of her from over 15 feet the day she brought her new Bersa .380 handgun home and fired it for the very first time. Sounds like he needs to spend a little less time walking around in bad areas of town until he does more range time, until then it sounds like he might be more of a danger to those around him than the criminals he might encounter.
Correct and that is how smart people practice and improve their shooting skills, missing twice from 8 feet away from someone that has also fired their weapon is not the sign of a person that has done much in the way of preparing to actually use the gun their are carrying. I have zero problem with people carrying guns, but come on folks use some common sense, if you do not actually practice and learn how to use the tool properly you may be as much a danger to yourself and those around you as you are to those you are trying to defend against. Hopefully now that the dust has cleared he will realize some serious range time is in order.
So your assumption is that the assailants were just standing there like paper targets after firing a shot and being fired back on?
Last edited by CaseyB; 10-16-2014 at 12:51 PM..
Reason: rude
Good for him, always good to see a good guy win. That said, I do have one concern; if the assailant was only 8 feet away and he shot twice how did he miss the kid? Really, 8 feet, heck my wife could hit everything in front of her from over 15 feet the day she brought her new Bersa .380 handgun home and fired it for the very first time. Sounds like he needs to spend a little less time walking around in bad areas of town until he does more range time, until then it sounds like he might be more of a danger to those around him than the criminals he might encounter.
A few decades ago a police officer was chasing an armed robbery suspect and turned a corner and ran right into him. They both emptied their revolvers at each other - 12 shots at a distance of six feet, 12 misses. Adrenaline really works you over.
He may have missed but I think Mr. Flynn saved his life and the life of his companion. Good on him.
So your assumption is that the assailants were just standing there like paper targets after firing a shot and being fired back on?
You are the one assuming, and if he had really learned to use his tool he would have been able to hit the target at 8 feet whether the target was standing still or moving especially when you fire 2 shots. Maybe your skills are on par with his and I would suggest the same thing for you, go learn to use your tools.
A few decades ago a police officer was chasing an armed robbery suspect and turned a corner and ran right into him. They both emptied their revolvers at each other - 12 shots at a distance of six feet, 12 misses. Adrenaline really works you over.
He may have missed but I think Mr. Flynn saved his life and the life of his companion. Good on him.
I already agreed that it was a good thing that he was able to stop the robber. Not my fault neither one of the two in your story could shoot under stress. I used to run ranges and we had Local cops, Sheriffs and State Troopers come and shoot on several occasions, the second two groups were good to excellent shots, but local cops were down right scary. One of their Captains came up to me after one of his groups went through the course and asked how they did, I told him if they were rushing my house I would have shot half of his department before they got through the door and a whole lot more would have been shot by their fellow officers. Needless to say they were all back for a further training over the next couple of weeks and most were pretty darn good by the time they were done. It takes practice to have shooting become second nature and in the past most local police officers did not take the time and the Department they worked for did not make it a priority. Some of them have changed that policy today but there are still some that simply hope they never have to get into a gun fight, not a good plan in my opinion.
I already agreed that it was a good thing that he was able to stop the robber. Not my fault neither one of the two in your story could shoot under stress. I used to run ranges and we had Local cops, Sheriffs and State Troopers come and shoot on several occasions, the second two groups were good to excellent shots, but local cops were down right scary. One of their Captains came up to me after one of his groups went through the course and asked how they did, I told him if they were rushing my house I would have shot half of his department before they got through the door and a whole lot more would have been shot by their fellow officers. Needless to say they were all back for a further training over the next couple of weeks and most were pretty darn good by the time they were done. It takes practice to have shooting become second nature and in the past most local police officers did not take the time and the Department they worked for did not make it a priority. Some of them have changed that policy today but there are still some that simply hope they never have to get into a gun fight, not a good plan in my opinion.
This incident happened in the 70s if I recall correctly. There's a famous author and firearms teacher who wrote about it in a book and it gets taught to security and law enforcement personnel during training.
This incident happened in the 70s if I recall correctly. There's a famous author and firearms teacher who wrote about it in a book and it gets taught to security and law enforcement personnel during training.
**nod** That was before officers got the intense tactical training they get these days. Very little range time and tactical retention techniques were taught back then.
Says nothing about him being a moving target, you are assuming. It says they were 8 feet away and that is well with the range anyone with any skill with their weapon should be able to hit.
Sure it is, because when you think range time it is different from what those that shoot guns all the time actually do. When we practice we do so while standing still, while on the move and from several different positions and even with moving targets. You should try it some time it is a lot more fun that standing still and firing at a paper target.
With the new loads available from companies like Hornady a .380 is a fine gun for up close work and will do the job required. Many women, especially the smaller women, find it a far easier gun to manage and get proficient with and that is what is high on the list of requirements when it comes to firing guns. That said she can also shoot my 9mm, .40cal, and .44mag and has become proficient with all of them but the last one, but she just prefers her .380. especially when she carries. Not over priced the gun cost less than most 9mm's and is fairly compact and the rounds cost me the same or less than good quality 9mm's. Hard to find my arse, Cabella's, Academy, Bass Pro and Gander Mountain all sell the guns and the ammo and when you find a good deal smart people stock up. Your opinion is one that was correct back in the 70's and 80's things have changed dramatically since then and with the new loads available they are a very good main gun for a small woman or as a backup for ones main gun.
Take moving out of the equation. How about a target that's shooting back? His results are not uncommon. You shoot to stop a threat you don't shoot to kill. His shooting stopped the threat. The job was done. So .380 is effective, eh? Here's a guy who was shot 5 times in the face with .38 special and then managed to get to his car and drive away.
There's an old saying in the gun world: What does someone normally do after they've been shot with a handgun? Whatever they were doing before they were shot with a handgun.
I took at look at one of the retailers you suggested. WWB 9x19 is 14.99 per box while .380 is 21.99.
I shoot about 4 boxes an hour usually so we're talking 28.00 more per hour to shoot a smaller, inferior round. No thanks. There are also numerous gun options out there far superior to that Bersa in 9x19 that have similar ergonomics, demensions, weight, trigger pull, end etc. I work in the industry locally and nobody stocks .380 so it's hard to find here. It may be a regional supply issue or maybe nobody stocks it because it's an inferior round. Who knows but either way up here it's hard to find.
In conclusion: Friends don't let friends buy .380s.........
Yes...collateral damage is what you want to practice to avoid..I feel the same as you,if you carry,practice and that goes triple for cops who are the laziest of lazy at range time.
Exactly..while 99% of the guys I knew carried .380 as a backup weapon,I ALWAYS carried a Charter Arms Bulldog Pug in .44spl...want to talk about something being a bear cat to qualify with?lol
Many,many years of reading Combat Handguns (before it was an envouge rag),CAS,SAS,participation and listening instead of mouthing,reading Massad Ayoob(pretty much everything he wrote back in the 80's..pre blog era),everything Bill Jordan or Elmer Keith ever wrote,studying the case history (and witness interviews) of the Mike Rosa shooting ,standard peace officers training in 3 states,ERT training in one area..heard it all my life and Massad studied every LEO shooting that occurred for eons...I gather you don't have much weapons experience if you do not know that? How long is a vehicle?In a traffic stop,how far are you parked away from a subject's vehicle?a lot of gunfights are from driver's door of the stopped vehicle to the patrol cars driver's door...etc etc etc my old man was a gun freak deluxe years and years before the fad hit and he drove it into my head from birth(we would shoot walnuts off of trees for a dollar a miss ) ..I also learned a lot about that 25' distance from sitting pickup truck door to pickup truck door from guys like this(I was quicker than the average duck,this guy was LIGHTENING )..I was raised in his "area"....he knew Bill Jordan well and Bill Jordan knew what real world gunfights were all about..not a poser. Ed Cantrell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
On a side note,I no longer participate in anything other than a bit of plinking with my kids,coyote hunting for the challenge and and an occasional post on this site..the "new breed" of gunner is so much smarter than anyone else and so in most forums I am dismissed as an idiot because I do not follow every new gun model that's the current fad or worship the latest know it all blogger...so,as for the 25' reference? I stand by it...I've done my research,do your own my brother
I'm just wondering because most sources I see say the average self defense shooting takes place at 10 feet or less.
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) ..I also learned a lot about that 25' distance from sitting pickup truck door to pickup truck door from guys like this(I was quicker than the average duck,this guy was LIGHTENING )..I was raised in his "area"....he knew Bill Jordan well and Bill Jordan knew what real world gunfights were all about..not a poser.
