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Just another end result of busy body progs and their do gooder attitude. The joke is that most of them trying to tell everyone else how to raise their kids either have none of their own or hire someone to raise the ones they do have.
I just saw on the other thread that you don't have children. I'm also guessing you've never been in the position of witnessing terrified children being dragged away from Mom or Dad. Traumatizing? You betcha. Rule No. 1: You protect your children. Rule No. 2: Parents should NEVER use their children to advance their own agenda.
Here's the deal, Comrade. If a parent can't pull up his big boy panties and "take a stand against such evil" without throwing his kids to the wolves, then it's best he not have children.
BTW, I would provide legal representation to the Montgomery County parents in a heart beat. I would NOT be willing to represent the father in a CINA proceeding had he callously allowed CPS to remove his children because he didn't want to sign a stupid safety plan.
Man, if this is the mentality of most people out there, no wonder CPS has all the power we have. The term "useful idiots" certainly comes to mind.
If Rule #1 is protect your children, maybe that means using force to prevent someone from kidnapping your children, no matter who that is, because as far as I'm concerned, the only difference between CPS kidnapping and that done by what we call kidnapping is that the former is technically legal and the latter isn't. I've heard some say that where it regards their children, they don't care about the law, in cases such as if someone tried to hurt their children they'd go after them even if it were legally to be classified as assault. Frankly, I can't see where someone using physical force to at least ATTEMPT to prevent someone from the government kidnapping their children is any different. The only reason I'd advise someone against it is because the person doing this will still lose in the end once it catches up to you--i.e., they'll be back, with more than you can defeat, and you're going to be put away for 30-odd years and then where does that leave you or your children.
That you would say someone is "using their children" to advance an agenda, that's just ridiculous. What a bunch of malarkey that is. It's called taking a stand. It's called someone was minding their own business trying to be a family and some uninvited bunch of Communists came knocking and barging in unannounced with the threat of legalized kidnapping unless you bend over and take it up the tailpipe. What about when the children want to play outside and we have to explain we now can't because someone from the government may come and take you away from us--and yes, they SHOULD know that, it's the truth. What message is that sending except that at any time they can be whisked off at any point by someone else, versus that their parents are the final say? How can you call yourself the parents if you are having to modify your parenting because the Communists came in and ordered you to? You're not the parents, THEY are in that scenario. Parents shouldn't have to modify their parenting style because of the threat of such. That's nothing more than duress, the same as a bank robber holding a gun to your head. We put such people away, and frankly I'd be all for someone putting these Communists away so parents can get back to being parents and not tools of the state.
Most of the time, things seemed better back then, because people were more ignorant. There was no social media, internet, or other related technology. People didn't know what went on outside of their circles. You could say ignorance was bliss. It was the "good old days' because of exactly that reason. Things weren't better then, people just knew less of what went on. People don't get more evil because of advancements and technology.
People who wanted to know what went on outside the circles made it their business to know before today's technology. It's pretty darn arrogant to say they were more ignorant before social media, internet, or other related technology. There are plenty of people today who don't utilize any kind of information tools or resources available to them because they don't want to know what's going on outside their circles.
There have always been newspapers, radio and the news on TV. Sure kids got hurt, kidnapped and were put in danger and people knew about it. It didn't take Social Media to tell them there were bad guys in the world.
Today there just might be too much information being thrown around and rather than trying to substantiate it, many people will just parrot what they hear on the Internet or Social Media thinking if someone tweeted or shared it on related technology it must be true.
There is and always has been danger to children but trying to keep them locked up or preventing them from just being kids isn't the answer to keeping them safe. I think the chances are greater of kids being hurt in the home by bad parents than they are by strangers on the street.
People who wanted to know what went on outside the circles made it their business to know before today's technology. It's pretty darn arrogant to say they were more ignorant before social media, internet, or other related technology. There are plenty of people today who don't utilize any kind of information tools or resources available to them because they don't want to know what's going on outside their circles.
There have always been newspapers, radio and the news on TV. Sure kids got hurt, kidnapped and were put in danger and people knew about it. It didn't take Social Media to tell them there were bad guys in the world.
Today there just might be too much information being thrown around and rather than trying to substantiate it, many people will just parrot what they hear on the Internet or Social Media thinking if someone tweeted or shared it on related technology it must be true.
There is and always has been danger to children but trying to keep them locked up or preventing them from just being kids isn't the answer to keeping them safe. I think the chances are greater of kids being hurt in the home by bad parents than they are by strangers on the street.
That is exactly right. Not only that, I think the expectations have changed, we don't accept the fact that some times things just happen, and that there is a balance between safety and adventure and, dare I say it, convenience.
I have seen some of the interviews by Lenore Skenazy, the leader of the free range movement, and something she said once resonated with me. She spoke of how, in her mind, if years ago a child were to be separated from her parents at the fun fair and, say, skinned their knee etc, then others would be sympathetic to the parent's plight and how those sorts of things happen, whereas now the response would be one of condemnation and judgment towards the parents. She said basically "in the past, they'd gotten a lot of sympathy, now they'd get a lot of blame."
I recall growing up riding a "Big Wheel" on a 55 mph road when I was 8. This was not the busiest road in the world, maybe 1 car every 2-odd minutes, but it wasn't a dead-end cul de sac either, and cars did go by at 55 mph or such. I was expected to know how to move for the cars etc, and no one thought anything of it. Now you will hear of people saying it's neglect for a child to ride a bicycle even on dead-end dirt roads and how if they get run over that it's the parent's fault.
In like manner, if you get a car seat, you are, in some people's eyes, an awful good-for-nothing type of parent for not gladly getting the most fussy-to-use 3-point harness vs getting another type that's easier to buckle & unbuckle. "So your personal convenience means more to you than your child's safety," they say. What a bunch of doo-doo. Even a "normal" car seat is safe, it's just LESS safe vs a 3-point harness type (or so they tell me), but it's hardly a death trap or like leaving them unbuckled, and I figure that day-to-day dealing with one that's NOT a 3-point harness is much easier and leads to a less stressed-out parent who is less likely to make some other mistake which may actually HURT their children.
Man, if this is the mentality of most people out there, no wonder CPS has all the power we have. The term "useful idiots" certainly comes to mind.
If Rule #1 is protect your children, maybe that means using force to prevent someone from kidnapping your children, no matter who that is, because as far as I'm concerned, the only difference between CPS kidnapping and that done by what we call kidnapping is that the former is technically legal and the latter isn't. I've heard some say that where it regards their children, they don't care about the law, in cases such as if someone tried to hurt their children they'd go after them even if it were legally to be classified as assault. Frankly, I can't see where someone using physical force to at least ATTEMPT to prevent someone from the government kidnapping their children is any different. The only reason I'd advise someone against it is because the person doing this will still lose in the end once it catches up to you--i.e., they'll be back, with more than you can defeat, and you're going to be put away for 30-odd years and then where does that leave you or your children.
That you would say someone is "using their children" to advance an agenda, that's just ridiculous. What a bunch of malarkey that is. It's called taking a stand. It's called someone was minding their own business trying to be a family and some uninvited bunch of Communists came knocking and barging in unannounced with the threat of legalized kidnapping unless you bend over and take it up the tailpipe. What about when the children want to play outside and we have to explain we now can't because someone from the government may come and take you away from us--and yes, they SHOULD know that, it's the truth. What message is that sending except that at any time they can be whisked off at any point by someone else, versus that their parents are the final say? How can you call yourself the parents if you are having to modify your parenting because the Communists came in and ordered you to? You're not the parents, THEY are in that scenario. Parents shouldn't have to modify their parenting style because of the threat of such. That's nothing more than duress, the same as a bank robber holding a gun to your head. We put such people away, and frankly I'd be all for someone putting these Communists away so parents can get back to being parents and not tools of the state.
I'm glad you've embraced and thought out what you're because you are basically advocating killing or at least physically attacking CPS and then I guess hoping for the best even though they almost will come back with more people than you can deal with next time. You do at least admit this, but at the same time you seem reluctant to admit that this is not a strategy even remotely likely to succeed.
It is miserable that our society has so rapidly fallen to this level, but it seems everyone wants to control every aspect of their neighbors' lives. However, you're not putting forth anything approaching a reasonable or even likely to succeed method of dealing with this.
That's why no one is agreeing with you while you advocate illegal actions.
Most of the time, things seemed better back then, because people were more ignorant. There was no social media, internet, or other related technology. People didn't know what went on outside of their circles. You could say ignorance was bliss. It was the "good old days' because of exactly that reason. Things weren't better then, people just knew less of what went on. People don't get more evil because of advancements and technology.
I'd say it was the other way around. People back then had a more accurate awareness of what the actual dangers were to their children, and were able to make rational evaluations of the risk of letting children go about their business unsupervised. It's the people of today - who run around in circles screeching, "Oh my god, crime is skyrocketing, it's too dangerous to let children out of your sight for an instant!" - who are ignorant. Anyone who truly believes the world is a more dangerous place today, that crime is actually higher than it was 50 years ago, is clearly the ignorant one, because what they believe is simply not true - and very easily disproved with 5 minutes of googling.
I used to walk a half-mile to school and even *gasp* got flashed on my way home one day! (I was in the fifth grade, so 10 years old) My friend and I just giggled and ran home. No trauma. No PTSD. No psychotropic drugs. I don't think I even told my mom about it. I survived.
One of my favorite things to do, as a child, was to wander around the neighborhood at twilight on a summer day, enjoying the lovely ambient sounds of the neighborhood as it settled down for the evening. As long as I was home by the time it got dark, no big deal.
I did the same when I was a kid because we never woried about loony people walking the streets, they were all in mental institutions. A few years back in a move to save taxpayers some money our president decided to close all the gov't funded mental health institutions. That's why people are fearfull of alowing their kids to be alone at those young ages.
Look it up.
I've looked it up. California governor Ronald Reagan defunded the state mental institutions after they'd been emptied by liberals pursuing court cases that asserted the inmates' right to decide what treatment to receive. This story somehow got transmuted into *President* Reagan defunding mental institutions *before* they were emptied as a result of court cases. I wonder who screwed up the story...
Kids 6 and 10 need constant supervision, and can't be unsupervised? Unbelievable. When I was a kid, at this age, I walked to school all the time, and it was a good mile from home. I walked in first and second grade to school over a mile away from my home. No big deal. We went to the park all the time and played for hours unsupervised. How crazy are these people?
When you were a kid, when was that? Things were different when I was a kid too. But for me that was a time when mom's were housewives and were proud of their contributions and neighbors were more friendly and helpful. Remember those old 10 pm PSA's asking do you know where your children are? It's sad parents would have to be forced to be very pro-active and watchful of their children but given the way things are today, I can understand it. These are the days of idiot parents being so brain dead they don't even remember having a child in the backseat with them, then parking the car and letting the kid broil from the heat. How the hell do ya forget ya got junior in the car seat right behind ya? I'm sure they remembered their phone though. Did you read the letter from the teacher in Oklahoma she sent to Facebook reference the behavior of her 12 year olds and what they thought was OK?
Do some Googling and see how many articles you find reference kids being approached by strangers in an attempt to coerce them to get in their vehicle. Columbus, Ohio PD issued warnings about attempted abductions this last December, and Detroit just had a case of this on their news the other day. Chicago too, has had several abduction attempts in the last year. And that's just an example.
These are crazy times and that requires very responsible parenting, that means knowing where your kid is at all times and that he is safe. I would not feel OK with letting a young kid walk even a few blocks to school. How fast can some perv grab a child? It just takes a few seconds. Look at the number of children never found and read the stories of the grieving parents. Then we'll talk.
I'm glad you've embraced and thought out what you're because you are basically advocating killing or at least physically attacking CPS and then I guess hoping for the best even though they almost will come back with more people than you can deal with next time. You do at least admit this, but at the same time you seem reluctant to admit that this is not a strategy even remotely likely to succeed.
It is miserable that our society has so rapidly fallen to this level, but it seems everyone wants to control every aspect of their neighbors' lives. However, you're not putting forth anything approaching a reasonable or even likely to succeed method of dealing with this.
That's why no one is agreeing with you while you advocate illegal actions.
Here's the thing. Unless we're talking about things like weirdo cults, beatings with baseball bats, parents having their brother (the child's uncle) watching their children even if it's a known fact that this person has pedophile-like tendencies, then a parent shouldn't have to justify their parenting decisions and practices to outsiders, especially the government. Those particular types of extremes are an obvious exception, otherwise their parental sovereignty should be absolute and beyond reproach. Anything else is Communism and needs to be destroyed and fought at every opportunity. A person threatening to call CPS on a person should be arrested and prosecuted for harassment and interference with parental authority the same as how someone who becomes too nasty with the flight attendants on a plane can be arrested.
If others have the paranoid belief that these are the worst times we've ever lived in and children require constant supervision, that is their opinion. That's all it is. To use the system to force their opinion on another is evil tyranny and such people should be arrested for parental harassment. I absolutely mean it. If you call CPS because you see someone letting their children walk on a country street and you just can't stand the idea that someone would parent that way, such a person should be told, by the police or CPS, "call us when you see real abuse. If you bother these parents again we'll arrest YOU for harassment." The message should be clear--yes, if you see REAL abuse, by all means, come forward, but if you simply disagree with a style of parenting, that isn't your place to butt in. Do so anyway, and you'll be prosecuted for it, because false accusations have serious repercussions for families. It causes families to stop parenting the way they know to be right and instead parent the way those other people think is right, because they don't want their family destroyed. They should be able to tell such busy bodies to mind their own business and don't let the door hit you on the way out.
Yes, one could advocate for the laws to be changed, but frankly, that's too much work, especially for parents who are, you know, busy actually being parents. (When I was saying in the last paragraph about fighting the system, I mean when it's cast onto you, at that point tell them what you think of it, and devise a strategy to overcome it vs just cooperating with it. I'm not talking about doing things that end up taking over your entire life.) Who were the numb skulls who advocated for this sort of nonsense anyway? I would imagine (I'm totally speculating) it's the same people who think it's any of their business whether or not I wear a seatbelt or a motorcycle helmet, or what type of food I eat, or think that someone who doesn't want to be in a nursing home should be FORCED and ORDERED into one versus being allowed to die in private in the surroundings of their own home.
So what I'm saying is I find it offensive that someone would suggest that a parent not just bending over and taking it up the tailpipe somehow is being "prideful" or "using their children to further an agenda." That's such polluted thinking. The real problem is that these parents are being compelled to justify their parenting decisions to start with. The reply ought to be "I do what I do because I'm the parent and you aren't, that's why, period."
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