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I would say poverty starts with those who do not eve have clean water to drink .The bottom is always the bottom. As we measure poverty it does not consider anything but earned income.
I don't think Adam Smith encountered a lot of liberals in 18th-century Scotland. But there was no lack of poverty. And there was certainly no lack of shame, either.
As for the school uniform diversion, I don't know what to say except that Adam Smith wasn't talking of actual linen shirts.
I don't think Adam Smith encountered a lot of liberals in 18th-century Scotland. But there was no lack of poverty. And there was certainly no lack of shame, either.
As for the school uniform diversion, I don't know what to say except that Adam Smith wasn't talking of actual linen shirts.
By 18th Century standards Adam Smith was a LIBERAL ! You should have seen what Conservatives were like back then. You know the kind of people who burned people they disagreed with at the stake.
It's not just about material wellbeing, after a certain point. Status and power are zero sum. A wildly inequitable distribution of these things is a problem as well.
The guy who pretty much wrote the handbook on capitalism, who coined the term "an invisible hand", whose "Wealth of Nations" is arguably the most influential text on economics and to some extent politics?
Here's some of what he has to say on poverty and why relative poverty still causes a very real degree of suffering. Shirts are mentioned.
In modern parlance, we'd say that humans are social creatures and that being excluded - on any grounds, including relative poverty - is stressful.
Here is Smith on social engineering:
Quote:
The man of system, on the contrary, is apt to be very wise in his own conceit; and is often so enamoured with the supposed beauty of his own ideal plan of government, that he cannot suffer the smallest deviation from any part of it. He goes on to establish it completely and in all its parts, without any regard either to the great interests, or to the strong prejudices which may oppose it. He seems to imagine that he can arrange the different members of a great society with as much ease as the hand arranges the different pieces upon a chess-board. He does not consider that the pieces upon the chess-board have no other principle of motion besides that which the hand impresses upon them; but that, in the great chess- board of human society, every single piece has a principle of motion of its own, altogether different from that which the legislature might chuse to impress upon it. If those two principles coincide and act in the same direction, the game of human society will go on easily and harmoniously, and is very likely to be happy and successful. If they are opposite or different, the game will go on miserably, and the society must be at all times in the highest degree of disorder.
Smith's invisible hand:
Quote:
The rich only select from the heap what is most precious and agreeable. They consume little more than the poor, and in spite of their natural selfishness and rapacity, though they mean only their own conveniency, though the sole end which they propose from the labours of all the thousands whom they employ, be the gratification of their own vain and insatiable desires, they divide with the poor the produce of all their improvements. They are led by an invisible hand to make nearly the same distribution of the necessaries of life, which would have been made, had the earth been divided into equal portions among all its inhabitants, and thus without intending it, without knowing it, advance the interest of the society, and afford means to the multiplication of the species
What is poverty? The late political scientist Edward Banfield provided four degrees of poverty:
destitution, which is lack of income sufficient to assure physical survival and to prevent suffering from hunger, exposure, or remediable or preventable illness;
want, which is lack of enough income to support essential welfare;
hardship, which is lack of enough to prevent acute persistent discomfort or inconvenience. To this he added a fourth:
relative deprivation which is a lack of enough income, status, or whatever else may be valued to prevent one from feeling poor in comparison to others.
Hmmm...well before Obamacare 15.3% of americans were destitute. Its still a significant number, especially in some red states.
please..define essential welfare so we can define "want"
hardship....acute inconvenience....define that. is that the lack of a car? Or?
relative deprivation is rapidly rising......are you proud of this?
I've worked all over the world (currently in Peru) and by and large the really poor of the USA are caused largely by drug and alcohol abuse or mental disorder. The lower classes in the USA have it easier than most of the world. Of course, you are going to feel jealous or negative vibes about your situation if you are relatively less off than most of your neighbors. But you have the opportunity to advance yourself, as I and m wife have through education, hard work, and perseverance.
I've worked all over the world (currently in Peru) and by and large the really poor of the USA are caused largely by drug and alcohol abuse or mental disorder.
The lower classes in the USA have it easier than most of the world. Of course, you are going to feel jealous or negative vibes about your situation if you are relatively less off than most of your neighbors. But you have the opportunity to advance yourself, as I and m wife have through education, hard work, and perseverance.
I don't agree with this at all but if you have proof I'd love to see it.
I've worked all over the world (currently in Peru) and by and large the really poor of the USA are caused largely by drug and alcohol abuse or mental disorder. The lower classes in the USA have it easier than most of the world. Of course, you are going to feel jealous or negative vibes about your situation if you are relatively less off than most of your neighbors. But you have the opportunity to advance yourself, as I and m wife have through education, hard work, and perseverance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by natalie469
I don't agree with this at all but if you have proof I'd love to see it.
PTSD and so on can lay a person real low even if they WANT to take care of business. I know 1st hand here. Not fun.
I've worked all over the world (currently in Peru) and by and large the really poor of the USA are caused largely by drug and alcohol abuse or mental disorder.
The lower classes in the USA have it easier than most of the world. Of course, you are going to feel jealous or negative vibes about your situation if you are relatively less off than most of your neighbors. But you have the opportunity to advance yourself, as I and m wife have through education, hard work, and perseverance.
good post tall traveler. Once poor, I saw it all around me. These people are looking for their next high. And if they do work, they don't have much drive to move upward.
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